Am I The Only One That........

[stolzyboy]

I am just wondering if I am the only one that sits here all day to help people, and when you try to help them, or ask them more questions so you can help them, they

a) either never respond, so they never get helped

or

b) respond with a negative response that is irritating, or they don't even try to answer your question at all

or

c) they give you a problem like the following

i have a script that does blah, and blah, etc.... blah more blah....etc......

and it says this

parse error on line 6445

here is the code

wow, ever heard of debug

yeah i am venting, but it is so frustrating trying to help people when they don't
even try and help themselves first, my biggest pet peave?? is

troubleshoot your code

throw echos in here, echos in there to see what ifs, whiles, fors, etc....

you are certainly getting into

echo your query strings to see what it is trying to run, etc

i guess what i am trying to say is

TROUBLESHOOT

now don't get me wrong, i love helping people, but as i said it is very frustrating sometimes

[epimeth]

the problem is that they don't know what a parse error is, or what "expected T-Variable" or whatnot is... so telling them to troubleshoot isn't gonna help.

although what really pisses me if is the bit that says "On line XXX" and they ask "where is my error???" ;)

[stolzyboy]

i guess i am using parse error as an example, and if they did a search on google for parse error in php, they would get a clue, or simply read the whole parse error, usually says missing semicolon, {}, whatever, but they don't even try to fix anything themselves, they just run somewhere for someone else to fix their problems, wow, venting again

[stolzyboy]

i guess i am using parse error as an example, and if they did a search on google for parse error in php, they would get a clue, or simply read the whole parse error, usually says missing semicolon, {}, whatever, but they don't even try to fix anything themselves, they just run somewhere for someone else to fix their problems, wow, venting again

[Weedpacket]

Yeah, but that would assume that they try to search - that they think to themselves "I wonder if anyone has had this problem before?" Wilfully ignorant of the mass of help that has been offered in the past and that fact that it's available to them if they just bloody well looked for it, they all blithely assume that they (a) have a "wierd!" [sic] error that no-one else could possibly have seen before, or just (b) have an innate right to receive your help - the fact that you might have answered the same question five hours earlier has nothing to do with the fact that you're now expected to help them.

It just makes it worse for everyone. With everyone asking the same questions over and over and over again, attempts to search just return more and more and more instances of the questions being asked over and over and over again. It's enough to make one want to do a Josef Stalin impression over the whole show.

And don't get me started on the subject of subject lines.

[jimson]

now i know you are eager to become ANON ... :D

so you see flowers... there are all kinds of flowers out there...
same as people... many types....

anyway, can you tell me which thread that makes you pissed... ?

[Mordecai]

I don't so much mind when someone doesn't respond as much as I do when someone insults another because they didn't supply good enough info.
And I think the worst thing is when someone has a subject line like "hey!!! help me plzzzzzzzzzz :PPPPPP".. drives me insane!
If you:
1) Use a title that's relevant, you'll get a better response
2) Search, you will find the answer easier if the title describes the problem

[laserlight]

"hey!!! help me plzzzzzzzzzz :PPPPPP"

I usually shake my head at it but end up helping if I can

oh well

[Weedpacket]

Originally posted by Mordecai
1) Use a title that's relevant, you'll get a better response


Coupla hints:

We can already guess that you're wanting help with PHP - that's why you're posting in a PHP Help forum. So aim to come up with a title that doesn't use the words "PHP" or "Help" in it.

You may reckon that the problem is URGENT!, but that's an aspect of how you're handling the problem - it doesn't make a difference to the problem itself. Won't it be the same if you had six months to work on it? Other people have things to do as well, and some of them are URGENT!. They'll get around to your problems when their priorities allow. Shouting at them won't make them go any faster.

I feel myself building up into a full-blown rant here...

[Mordecai]

Originally posted by laserlight
"hey!!! help me plzzzzzzzzzz :PPPPPP"

I usually shake my head at it but end up helping if I can

oh well Yeah, I do, too, but that doesn't mean I'll like it! :P
Originally posted by Weedpacket
I feel myself building up into a full-blown rant here...
Uh oh... new code contest! A script that writes a rant about bad titles! :P

[dar-k]

Originally posted by laserlight
"hey!!! help me plzzzzzzzzzz :PPPPPP"

I usually shake my head at it but end up helping if I can

oh well
For the love of god, don't encourage them!!

[jimson]

i enjoy the moment when somebody whom i helped thanks me...
... in personally... :D
really nice...

so, i will try to help if that problem can be helped...
the person who know how to thanks is a cleaver boy/girl and they will get help in the later time... those who just want to solve their problem then disappeared is kinda...

http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10237870

http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10239264

wonder why i always appeared in the thread where laserlight also appeared? ... ? laserlight... u know why?

[dartcol]

I'm pretty much a newcomer to PHP but have finally got over the initial hurdle of losing the thread of a code after the second IF statement. To get this far, I have to say that I've spent perhaps 40:1 searchtime to asking for help time. I found myself the other night going through the archives 1-4000 out of desperation for a well-formulated answer. I got there eventually but it was hidden deep.

I guess some people just can't penetrate others' suggestions at times. That's not to blame people here as I've seen posts from everyone here and they've always been dead simple for me to understand.

The biggest crime here though is not being arsed to look. And on this I have a question:
If you come across a new posting and you remember something similar but don't remember where it was do you:

a) tend to answer there and then
b) search for the posting yourself and direct the offender to it
or
c) tell them to pull their finger out

I kind of like helping others with what little I know but I'm sure the easy stuff I suggest has been answered elsewhere making me part of the clogging.
Official policy please!

[Elizabeth]

Hence the reason why I stopped posting in the General Help and Newbies threads. I'd much rather spend my time talking about PHP and other programming (or bullsh*t topics) with people who know what I'm talking about and let people who are newer to the board and not so frustrated with the masses handle the newbie "plz help me!" questions. I usually only have a few minutes at a time, so for me to spend it trying to figure out what someone's talking about and writing their code for them just isn't good time management on my part.

However, I can figure out my porn name in a heartbeat ;)

-Elizabeth

[dartcol]

A sensible answer, Elizabeth. I guess I won't be in a position to help anyone for the next eon or so ...

porn = peon = pawn = porn! Heeelloh, baby!

After thought:
But this means that all newbies would eventually start invading other areas with unnecessary questions. Isn't it a moderator's job to keep everyone abiding by the site rules? How about having to find ten unnecessary comments each for deletion to be passed on to the moderator before they get a chance of posting again? Kind of community service.

[matto]

Have you ever had the impression that someone is posting his/her homework?

The postings that I mean go like this:

"Hi! I need to set up a mysql database which can hold CLIENTS and PRODUCTS. for administration I want to write one script which takes data from a HTML form and stores the record. a second script should etc. etc. Anyone can help me? It's urgent, I have to have it finished by tuesday."

Since I've seen such exercises once (my gf had to do such things for university), I'm quite paranoid about this kind of requests. :)

Well we're here for helping people but not for doing their homework, are we?

[stolzyboy]

anyway, can you tell me which thread that makes you pissed... ?

well there isn't a thread in particular, it is just the way some ask for help, then demand it's urgency, like weedpacket said, and then sometimes don't even try your suggestions cuz they think they won't work

well then why are you here then if you don't take suggestions, or
even try the ones given to you

not only do i try and help people, but i read over posts even if i don't post on that thread and see this happening to other great
helpers

i'm just afeared that the good help will dwindle down (not me) for
the simple fact that people don't care what others say even when
the are in URGENT help

and jimson whats the anon thing for, ya think i am here just to get a large post number, whats that gonna get me a cookie or something, LOL :)

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by matto
Have you ever had the impression that someone is posting his/her homework? Yes, as in this thread here (http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10239161). At least he titled the thread "help with college work," so I guess he gets one less LART thrashing.

-Elizabeth

[jimson]

Originally posted by stolzyboy
and jimson whats the anon thing for, ya think i am here just to get a large post number, whats that gonna get me a cookie or something, LOL :)

lol... i got to follow you...

[stolzyboy]

you shouldn't follow me, i am a misguided soul, blindly following another misguided soul

[jimson]

i follow but not copy ...
if u are false... then i will make it true... :D
anyway... i am guided soul... :)

[stolzyboy]

whats this

if condition then

crap //asp *shudder*

its

if (condition)
{

}

[jimson]

else ?

[stolzyboy]

ok here ya go

ASP

if condition then

code block

else

code block

end if
----------------
PHP

if (condition)
{
code block
}
else
{
code block
}

[Sxooter]

My other pet peeve is people who post 500 lines of code, and don't bother to enclose it in code tags.

the next step in bothering me is to make sure you have at least one line in your code that is 500 characters or more in length, so that the entire thread is jacked up and unreadable.

find the AREA that's the problem and post just that (20 or so lines of code is fine.) and for goddess' sake, if you need a query of 500 characters, at least build it with .= operators so it's a series of <80 character width chunks.

heck, you can just do it with CRs in it like:

$query = "Select field1, field2
from table3
where field4 is NULL";

and php/mysql/postgresql will take it.

[stolzyboy]

very good point sxooter, and btw, mysql will often take the CR route, although it is much more picky about it than postgresql


ahhh noticed you edited your post right before i posted

[Sxooter]

You know, I've noticed a lot of little niggling details in MySQL like that lately. One guy was using postgresql, which folds to lower case, so he had to quote his field names like:

select "Field1" from "Table99.I" where "Field2" = 'sometext';

He was trying to port to MySQL, and MySQL wouldn't accept field or table names inside quotes. That's standard SQL spec, that quoting field / table names prevents case folding.

Poor guy had to write a routine that did one thing for MySQL and another for everything else.

[Moonglobe]

i've only been posting here for less than a month, and already im seeing this sort of thing. one thing that i've noticed is that people seem to take you less serioulsy the fewer posts you have :(. ah well, that's only a few of the less-than-bright ones. :)

[Norman Graham]

Yup, answering the same question 15 times in one day is v. annoying. I try to discipline myself by promising to attempt to help, say, 10 complete newbies for every 'help' question I post. I am, after all, more or less a newbie myself. However, I've given up answering questions about how to install WAMP and then find out if it's working. It is such a depressing pastime. I once wrote 4 pages of closely detailed text on how to install WAMP and the f***er didn't even read it. He re-posted exactly the same question the next day.

Other pet hate ... "why ain't my variables passing?" x 50 per day.

Norm

[Weedpacket]

Originally posted by Norman Graham
Other pet hate ... "why ain't my variables passing?" x 50 per day. It's a good day when they realise that that's why their scripts aren't working.

[Norman Graham]

Originally posted by Weedpacket
It's a good day when they realise that that's why their scripts aren't working.

lol ;)

Norm

[Sxooter]

Originally posted by Moonglobe
i've only been posting here for less than a month, and already im seeing this sort of thing. one thing that i've noticed is that people seem to take you less serioulsy the fewer posts you have :(. ah well, that's only a few of the less-than-bright ones. :)

Hehe. I'd have to say I'm far more likely to not take someone seriously who has been posting here a long time. :p

But I tend to answer a LOT of newbie posts in the database area, so I'm more likely to find myself interacting with beginners who I don't expect to know much.

I also come across as harsh alot when I don't mean to. I guess I'm just not big on niceties some of the time.

[stolzyboy]

it is very easy to come across as harsh when reading these forums

they are very impersonal and is hard to tell emotion through words

you can read a sentence ten different way with different emphasis and tones

ie

Did you ever try to use $_POST['variable'] instead of $variable?

that sounds straight to the point, and like "duh, did you", and angrily, so.....

anyway Sxooter

I don't think it is you, it is just this damn internet, it is so impersonal, AAAAAAACCCKKKKK, I sound like my Grandpa!!!!!!

[dartcol]

Originally posted by stolzyboy
Did you ever try to use $_POST['variable'] instead of $variable?

that sounds straight to the point, and like "duh, did you", and angrily, so.....
Sensitive types, some people. I'm sure they'll get over it ... their problem otherwise. I mean, didn't they ask for help?
Sxooter: I'm with you on the not using code tags. Even though in Mozilla it inserts an extra line between each line of code.

[stolzyboy]

Originally posted by dartcol
I'm sure they'll get over it ...

i know they will get over their problem, but Sxooter is saying that peeps on here are too frickin sensitive when they read your suggestions, they get bent all outta shape, probably cuz they are frustrated in the first place, but, come on, its just constructive criticism

[Bunkermaster]

i got a collector one (http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10240605)

ROFL

[stolzyboy]

Question: But if I am not using php?

Answer w/ Question: Then the next logical question is what are you doing here?

Good one Bunker, thats pretty much what I am talking about, people just don't think before they ask silly questions, nor do they research anywhere, I mean how long have you been on the internet and not known the fancy SEARCH engine GOOGLE!!

[dalecosp]

Check out this dude (http://www.phpbuilder.com/board/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=244925) on the homework issue.

But, please just ignore those who helped the first time....been wondering what to say to his second post. I don't feel like doing the work so he can drink Fosters' and party with some Sheilas (IF that's what he's up to) while I lay around waiting for my eyeball to heal....

And, moonglobe, on the subject of 'post count' == 'knowledge' ... you can read my posts and see that it ain't necessarily so... :) Unfortunately, these forums are designed to show 'status' and there isn't much of a good way to determine 'knowledge', so you earn your status on how many times you've clicked the 'submit' button.

FWIW, you're doing OK. If you've not been hit by Weedpacket's clue stick, you're doing QUITE ok, I'd guess.... :)

BTW, Mr. Weedpacket, thanks for every knock....

[Bunkermaster]

a feedback ranking system might do the trick but seeing how peeps use the [Resolved] feature...

[epimeth]

theres a resolved feature?!?!

whoa :rolleyes:

[BuzzLY]

Originally posted by dalecosp
FWIW, you're doing OK. If you've not been hit by Weedpacket's clue stick, you're doing QUITE ok, I'd guess.... :)

BTW, Mr. Weedpacket, thanks for every knock.... [/B]

... or Elizabeth's pink fuzzy LART. How embarrassing is THAT? I occasionally try to use my laser, but for some reason people just laugh at the blinking light...

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by BuzzLY
... or Elizabeth's pink fuzzy LART. How embarrassing is THAT? Hey it packs a mean wallop! And I guess it's not as embarassing as leaving your drivers license and social security card on the copy machine. ;)

-Elizabeth

[BuzzLY]

hehe... no, I suppose not. That would be pretty embarrassing!

[dalecosp]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Hey it packs a mean wallop! And I guess it's not as embarassing as leaving your drivers license and social security card on the copy machine. ;)

-Elizabeth Hey, I could do that easily. Now, if they found the imprint of some miscellaneous body part on the glass next to said documentation, now THAT would be embarassing....:D

[Bunkermaster]

OMG ROFL

Actually did that once... but there were multiple body parts from at least 2 individuals.

Made quite a bunch with the xerox machine :D

[dalecosp]

Originally posted by Bunkermaster
OMG ROFL

Actually did that once... but there were multiple body parts from at least 2 individuals.

Made quite a bunch with the xerox machine :D Don't u mean

ROTFLMAOTXM??

:D

[Bunkermaster]

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off Topping Xerox Machine?

[BuzzLY]

I think it's

Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Ass Off The Xerox Machine

[dalecosp]

As usual, Buzz, you're king of the Acronym...

Tho' Bunker's explanation brings up some interesting side comment possibilities....

[BuzzLY]

I'm not going there.

Don't you mean KOTA? :D

The ultimate acronym? I can see the conversation now:

"What does PHP stand for?"
"PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"
"Oh. But what does PHP stand for?"
"PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"
"Oh. But what does PHP stand for?"
"PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"
"Oh. But what does PHP stand for?"
"PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor"
"Oh. But what does PHP stand for?"

[dalecosp]

:D :D !!!

I think that's going on the FAQ in the newbie forum, isn't it?

[Bunkermaster]

People Hate Perl


thought you knew

[stolzyboy]

i don't think that's it Bunker

i think it is

Programmers

Hate

Perl

[Weedpacket]

i don't think that's it Bunker

i think it is

Programmers

Hate

Perl

It's

People
Hate
Programmers

or

Programmers
Hate
People

But which it is seems to vary from day to day.

[stolzyboy]

nice bump weed... and i agree totally :)

[Installer]

phPers
tHink
they're the cat's Pajamas

[Piranha]

Nice thread. I think it could be something like:

Pepole
Hates
PHP

What really pisses me off is when people don't give enough information and then get angry about the answer they get. Or, as said before, when people get the help they need but won't try it. That's why my signature looks like it does ;)

[Elizabeth]

/me passes the "bump crown" over to Weed. Obviously this was a topic that's been on your mind for a loooong time, I had forgotten it existed.

Personally I think it's
Programmers
Help
Poor slobs who can't figure out how to get their code to work

[dmcglone]

This makes me feel bad to post. The questions I posted, I had spent the better part of 2 or 3 days trying to figure out what was wrong before asking on the forum. I'm also quite new to mysql and grasping it is proven to be a daunting task for me.

I have 4 php books and 1 mysql book and I don't think they are written very well at all. Nothing in them explains what is happening and why. They each just jump in and write code without almost any explanation whatsoever.

Anyway, I hope that I'm not being a pest. I have thanked each one of you that have pointed me in the right direction and showed me what I did wrong and I am very appreciative of that.

David M.

[Sxooter]

This makes me feel bad to post. The questions I posted, I had spent the better part of 2 or 3 days trying to figure out what was wrong before asking on the forum. I'm also quite new to mysql and grasping it is proven to be a daunting task for me.


No, the guys who spen d 2 or 3 days trying then ask aren't the ones we're blasting here. It's the ones who get a homework assignment, don't bother to look up the mysql / postgresql / php docs or even examples, and come here asking us to do their homework for them that piss us off.

[zcollvee]

I guess most of them dont know how to Troubleshoot most of them are newbies who have just started to learn PHP. I was like that too but now im pretty good at it. Only the occasional problem leads me to ask for help.

[Piranha]

zcollvee, noone have problems with people that don't know how to troubleshoot. It is perfectly ok to ask "I am new to PHP and have a problem. Here is a piece of code that I can't get to run. Please show me how I can find the problem." Then the poster shows what they need help with, and that is to know how to debug. The problem is when people post "This code doesn't work" and expect others to guess what they want (do they want a confirmation that the code doesn't work?) and do their job for them.

What really gets me irritated is the persons that don't want to learn but want others to do their work for them. I have posted links to database normalizing (at least 10 minutes to read) just to have an answer 2 minutes later asking to do their database schema for them. When you try to tell them they get mad that they have to do stuff by themselfes, that they won't get spoon fed. If they want to code they have to want to learn, otherwise they will always need help from others for the simplest tasks.

[stolzyboy]

Wow, my thread resurrected again... This is still an issue with many posters, but if you genuinely are trying and aren't just looking for someone to do your work for you, you'll get some good help from the vets here.

It's the freeloaders that cause the problems for people that really want to learn PHP/Mysql/Pgsql/etc...

[dmcglone]

I understand. After I finally got that last bit of code working, I have taken a whole new direction with it and I'm actually understanding it a whole lot better. My biggest worry is security.

Just for kicks, Let me show you some code I wrote that I absolutely know is insanely crazy and there is a better way (that I don't know of) to accomplish the same thing, and It'll probably make me look really really stupid, but hey it worked. :-)

here's the code:

$pg="1";
if(isset($_GET['pg'])) $pg=$_GET['pg'];

if ($pg=='1'){
$query = "SELECT * FROM subheaderText WHERE page='".$pg."'";
$result = @mysql_query($query);
while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result)){

echo "<h1><span> $row[subheaderText]</span></h1>";
echo "$row[headerText]<br>";
}
}
if($pg != '1'){
$query = "SELECT * FROM subheaderText WHERE page='".$pg."'";
$result = @mysql_query($query);
while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result)){
echo "<h1><span> $row[subheaderText]</span></h1>";
echo "$row[headerText]<br>";
}
}
if($pg == '5'){
$query = "SELECT * FROM faq WHERE page='".$pg."'";
$result = @mysql_query($query);
echo "<h1><span>Frequently Asked Questions</span></h1>";
while ($row = mysql_fetch_array($result)){

[dmcglone]

I forgot to say, that I do know about table joins, but those suckers are hard to get working for me at the moment. I guess i'm not fully grasping the concept yet.

I did try to join subheaderText and the faq with this statement:
<?php
"SELECT * FROM subheaderText.fag"
?>

But it didn't work for me, so I moved on thinking it would soak in later.

[dmcglone]

Ah man! thats supposed to be a "comma":

"SELECT * FROM subheaderText , fag"

[NogDog]

Ah man! thats supposed to be a "comma":

"SELECT * FROM subheaderText , fag"

Note that for something like an hour after you submit a post, you can click the "Edit" button at the bottom right of the post if you need to change a typo or such. ;)

Also note that this forum provides a handy set of ... bbcode tags (http://phpbuilder.com/board/misc.php?do=bbcode) which make your codes samples much easier to read. (And there is also the [code] tag for other fixed-width, code-type text where the [php] tag does not apply.)

[dmcglone]

Note that for something like an hour after you submit a post, you can click the "Edit" button at the bottom right of the post if you need to change a typo or such. ;)

Also note that this forum provides a handy set of ... bbcode tags (http://phpbuilder.com/board/misc.php?do=bbcode) which make your codes samples much easier to read. (And there is also the [code] tag for other fixed-width, code-type text where the [php] tag does not apply.)
Ha! Ha! Now you see just how burnt out I was last night!! It's 6am here and when I read this post and realised the typo. I got my laughs for today.

[DETerrell]

zcollvee, noone have problems with people that don't know how to troubleshoot. It is perfectly ok to ask "I am new to PHP and have a problem. Here is a piece of code that I can't get to run. Please show me how I can find the problem." Then the poster shows what they need help with, and that is to know how to debug. The problem is when people post "This code doesn't work" and expect others to guess what they want (do they want a confirmation that the code doesn't work?) and do their job for them.

What really gets me irritated is the persons that don't want to learn but want others to do their work for them. I have posted links to database normalizing (at least 10 minutes to read) just to have an answer 2 minutes later asking to do their database schema for them. When you try to tell them they get mad that they have to do stuff by themselfes, that they won't get spoon fed. If they want to code they have to want to learn, otherwise they will always need help from others for the simplest tasks.

From my own personal experience I have to say that it is in part the fault of the person with the question but it is also the fault of the professors out there teaching this stuff to the students in college. I had a professor openly tell the class that it was not important to know the code so long as you know where to get it from; ie: these boards here and having them do the work for you. It seems like now a days everyone wants the quick fix and they don't want to take the time to actually learn anything. I enjoy the learning process and I am very grateful for anyone that is willing to share their knowledge with me that way. That is just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

[Piranha]

From my own personal experience I have to say that it is in part the fault of the person with the question but it is also the fault of the professors out there teaching this stuff to the students in college. I had a professor openly tell the class that it was not important to know the code so long as you know where to get it from; ie: these boards here and having them do the work for you. It seems like now a days everyone wants the quick fix and they don't want to take the time to actually learn anything. I enjoy the learning process and I am very grateful for anyone that is willing to share their knowledge with me that way. That is just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

I think (and hope) that you misunderstood your professor. He probably ment that it is not important to know all the different functions and what they do, the important thing is to be able to find out what function to use in a specific case. Everyone does it this way, noone knows all the functions in PHP or any other programming language.

But let's suppose that he really ment it as you understood it, and that people would use it that way. Then there would be a couple of coders that really knows how to code that would do their own work and every one elses. Obviously that wouldn't work, they would not do more than their own work.

But what about security? If I give you a script that you use, do you know that I'm not storing information from "your" page? What if I send everything that goes through the script to myself as well, effectivily storing information about the users of "your" site? It would be quite easy to do if you don't check the code but trust me blindly.

[DETerrell]

I can respect what you are saying but when you have professors making statements like that and teaching the use of tables as design tools, you have professors who are not keeping up with the times themselves and they are passing on bogus information on to their students.

I spoke to the university staff including the dean and everyone there looked at me like I had 3 heads or something when I pointed out that these professors were not teaching accurate information. All the colleges and universities are interested in is getting that tuition money. They are not interested in handing out accurate information at all.

That is why these forums are so important for beginners. It takes the people that work with this code everyday and that push the envelope with the code to help those who have misinformation from their professors to see what really does work. I know one professor that teaches the same set of codes to every class he has and he has been doing that for the last 5 years. Now, I am sure that the codes have improved over the years so that his code should also have improved but it has not. This is the sort of problems you have. I once heard a saying that seems over the years to have really become the truth. "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." It is a shame but it is still the truth.

[laserlight]

I once heard a saying that seems over the years to have really become the truth. "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." It is a shame but it is still the truth.
Just drop over to The Daily WTF (http://www.thedailywtf.com) and you will see that not all who do can. Take a look at the list of distinguished academics who have contributed to the advancement of computing while taking time to teach and you will see that not all who teach can't.

The truth is that, typically, professors do not only teach. They also do research since they are (or are supposed to be) experts in their fields, and for some of them teaching is merely a chore that they are required to do.

[DETerrell]

Just drop over to The Daily WTF (http://www.thedailywtf.com) and you will see that not all who do can. Take a look at the list of distinguished academics who have contributed to the advancement of computing while taking time to teach and you will see that not all who teach can't.

The truth is that, typically, professors do not only teach. They also do research since they are (or are supposed to be) experts in their fields, and for some of them teaching is merely a chore that they are required to do.

You may be right, but when I see a professor teaching HTML or Python telling a class that every assignment was to be set up using this code:

<body>
<table width="800">
<tr colspan="2">
<td>Header information here</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="200">Links go here</td>
<td width="600">Main body goes here</td>
</tr>
<tr colspan="2">
<td>Footer goes here</td>
</tr>
</table>
</body>

I have to question how big an expert he is and how much research he is doing in the field of internet programming. I know that when I first entered the work force I was able to accomplish the same thing as above with a little CSS and javascript. My ability to do that is what landed me my first job because I was designing websites without using tables and that impressed the company techies. That is not something that a professor taught me, but rather something I learned from a forum just like this one.

I only had one professor that truly understood the course he was teaching and that was because he was only a part time teacher at the university. The rest of his time was spent working for an international corporation located locally doing the very things he was teaching us about in class. Every bit of his information was up-to-date and he never used a textbook. He told us that by the time the textbooks get from the printer to the classroom, they are already 2 years out of date, which for Info Sec is not a good thing. That, in my humble opinion, was the mark of a true teacher of technology.

[Sxooter]

For an example of someone who teaches (yeah, it's guest lecturing...) See this guy:

Tom Lane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lane_(Open_Source_Software_Developer)#Education_and_academic_work)

Who is one of the head hackers on the PostgreSQL project. That guy definitely knows what he's doing.

But there's tons of lazy middling teachers out there for sure.

[laserlight]

I have to question how big an expert he is and how much research he is doing in the field of internet programming
It is entirely possible that that professor was not even involved in the field (though I would call it "web programming" rather than "internet programming", as the latter tends to imply something much wider in scope). I have heard of a lecturer who was assigned to teach a class that required the use of a programming language that he had never touched in his life. At least this meant that he had to look up material that might be recent, whereas a lecturer who had once upon a time used a given tool might teach the class using the tool as if the tool was never updated.

Then again, tools are just tools. Unless the aim of the class was to teach the use of the tool, a certain amount of tolerance for such ignorance of the tool should be appropriate.

I know that when I first entered the work force I was able to accomplish the same thing as above with a little CSS and javascript.
Though Javascript does not look necessary here ;)

[foyer]

That is not something that a professor taught me, but rather something I learned from a forum just like this one.

Too bad PHP builder doesn't hand out diplomas