Requisites for today's web developer

[Cleric]

3 years ago, I firmly decided on being a web developer. Now that I will graduate with my Bachelor's in Computer Science soon, I have been looking for web development positions in and around Raleigh as I hope to also do my graduate work there. However, despite wherever I look, I get an uneasiness as the qualifications for a web developer are so spread out.

As professional web developers and project managers, what a solid foundation of knowledge and experience that you expect a professional web developer to have?

Here is my current skill set and background: (x)HTML, CSS, Javascript, PHP 4, MySQL, Linux, Apache, Perl, database design, (some) Java and Design Patterns. I traditionally come from a Systems Design background where the concentration of my CS background has been in C. Over the past two years, I have been designing CVS for LSU's telecommunications group from previous CVS systems on legacy systems and from scratch.

I am currently looking into JSP to suppliment my portfolio as I am pressured by the lack of demand for PHP in the business world. I have a disdain for ASP and other Microsoft products due to limitations of flexibility, openness, and interoperability with third party products. I am also looking for opportunities to expand my XML/XSLT usage as I have not encountered a need yet.

[epimeth]

you're definitely right on the money... although you might want to get over your distain for ASP... sure none of us like it, but I'm sure many of us at least know how to code using it.

if you're serious about being a web developer you will definitely run into people looking to hire ASP developers and by not knowing it you're holding yourself back...

[Cleric]

Unfortunately, I find it very hard to get over that feeling. Me and a friend had this discussion last semester while talking about the job market because our MIS degree program pretty much only teaches people the Microsoft way of doing things.

Besides the attacks on Washington and California school districts for looking at Linux as a viable alternative to Windows, I am not seeing a huge quality of development tools or products from MS. For example, there are several irksome problems with how Visual Basic handles events with controls, how MS products can only run on MS servers, and how many IIS/IE patches are out there because of a new vulnerability every week. I have respect for the developers of Microsoft with all they must endure, but I don't feel as though it is not enough. There is also some feeling about how being interoperable with everyone else involves only using ASP as information is not confined to a programming language. Oh and lets not forget about how Microsoft cannot conform to web standards.

However, I digress. I know there are jobs in ASP, however, I still feel too strongly about this. I might be an idealist, but without ideals, how can standards exist? Thanks Adam

[epimeth]

lol... I'm roy

adam's a friend of mine... I felt that quote was funny enough to let the world know about. :-)

he also hands you a piece of paper with the word 'tuit' written inside a circle whenever you say "I'll do that when I get around to it"



for those of you who didn't get it...
a round tuit = around to it

[Weedpacket]

Ever since I first heard that line I've thought about being aloof.

[Elizabeth]

You could also be annoyed- I'm sure the world could use more noids too.

[Weedpacket]

Fortunately, demand for rogants is on the decline.

[epimeth]

ack!!!

he's created a monster!!!!!!

[Elizabeth]

Ok Cleric, back on-topic for you :)

I think you basically have 2 choices:

1 - Hold out hope for the dream job that allows you to fully use your open source skills to the fullest extent.

2 - Dip enough into ASP to get you a paying job of some sort where you can build some skills, get some experience under your belt, and keep on the look-out for that dream job as discussed in #1 above :)

It really depends on how long you are willing to wait for it- and how long your finances can hold out. I had a good friend who got his degree in philosophy because he just really enjoyed it. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of companies hiring full-time philosophists so he ended up in retail. Obviously you are a little more marketable than he was but you get the general idea. Sometimes you have to go with the flow, at least for a while, and jump out of the mainstream somewhere along the way. Everybody has to pay their dues at some point and have that crappy job they really hate... but it really makes you appreciate the good job when it finally comes along :)

hth!

-Elizabeth

[BuzzLY]

Bèlìèvè mè, ìdèáls árè á wøndèrfûl thìng, bût ìt sèèms thè ønès wìth thè pûrèst ìdèáls árè yøûng ánd frèsh øût øf cøllègè. Ås yøû mátûrè ìn thè márkèt, yøû'll rèálìzè thát thè ønly thìng thát rèálly máttèrs ìs høw mûch èvèryønè èlsè thìnks yøû knøw.

Í ám á Løtûs Dømìnø dèvèløpèr. Í ám vèry gøød át whát Í dø, ánd my cárèèr hás bèèn gøød ûp ûntìl ábøût á yèár ágø. Nøw, ìt sèèms mány øf my Løtûs Dømìnø dèvèløpèr frìènds árè øût øf wørk, ør hávè føûnd jøbs wørkìng wìth øthèr tèchnøløgìès. Í spènt sø mûch tìmè wìth Dømìnø ánd LøtûsScrìpt (ánd thè cørè wèb tèchnøløgìès) thát Í døn't hávè á brøád knøwlèdgè øf mány dìffèrènt tèchnøløgìès.

Nøw ìt sèèms áll thè cømpánìès Í'm løøkìng át før jøbs (dìd Í mèntìøn Í'm cûrrèntly ûnèmpløyèd?) wánt pèøplè whø knøw práctìcálly èvèry wèb tèchnøløgy èvèr ènvìsìønèd. Thèy døn't cárè tøø mûch ábøût sømèønè thát hás á dèèp knøwlèdgè øf ønè ør twø kèy dìscìplìnès. Thèy árè stûpìd tø hìrè thát wáy, ánd ìt wìll bìtè thèm øn thè áss whèn thèy rèálìzè thè pèøplè thèy hìrèd døn't knøw ènøûgh ábøût ány ønè sûbjèct, bût ìn thè mèántìmè nøbødy wìll hìrè mè.

Sø... whát tø dø? Yès, lèárn ÅSP. Lèárn whátèvèr tèchnøløgìès cømpánìès árè cûrrèntly dèmándìng. Jává ìs á gøød èxámplè. Thèn, whèn yøû árè hìrèd, føcûs øn thè tèchnøløgìès thèy ûsè èxtènsìvèly, ánd ìmmèrsè yøûrsèlf ìn lèárnìng èvèrythìng yøû cán. Nèvèr bè árrøgánt ènøûgh tø thìnk yøû knøw èvèrythìng -- thè mørè yøû lèárn, thè mørè yøû'll rèálìzè yøû døn't knøw Jáck.

Åt lèást, thát shøûld bè 90% øf yøûr føcûs. Thè øthèr 10%? Kèèp ûp wìth èmèrgìng tèchnøløgìès, ánd wátch thè trènds. Lèárn sømè nèw stûff, ánd ìf yøûr cømpány wìll sènd yøû tø clássès, tákè èvèry ønè yøû cán gèt áwáy wìth.

Crèátè á fèw dìffèrènt rèsûmès -- èách ønè føcûsìng øn á dìffèrènt áspèct øf yøûr ábìlìtìès. Før èxámplè, Í hávè ønè thát føcûsès tøwárd Løtûs Dømìnø skìlls. Ånøthèr shøws øff my wèb dèvèløpmènt skìllsèt. Yèt ánøthèr shøws my mánágèmènt ánd tèáchìng ábìlìtìès ánd èxpèrìèncè. Døn't bè áfráìd tø crèátè á rèsûmè táìlørèd før thát kìllèr jøb yøû'rè áìmìng før.

Åbøvè áll, dø NØT lìè. Bè hønèst ábøût yøûr ábìlìtìès ìn yøûr rèsûmè, yøûr cøvèr lèttèr, ánd yøûr ìntèrvìèw. Bût døn't ápøløgìzè før ány áppárènt shørtcømìngs. Ínstèád áccèntûátè thè pøsìtìvè áspècts øf yøûr èxpèrìèncè.

Ås Èlìzábèth sáìd, bè wìllìng tø tákè ány jøb, ánd cøntìnûè tø cûltìvátè yøûrsèlf før thát drèám jøb. Ít's á gámè. Thøsè whø pláy ìt bèst gèt thè hìghèst scørès. Íf yøû hávè tø lèárn ÅSP, sûck ìt ûp ánd lèárn ìt. Tákè sømè ádvìcè frøm thè Årt øf Wár: á gøød søldìèr knøws hìs ènèmy. Lèárn èvèrythìng yøû cán ábøût ÅSP -- gøød ánd bád. Thèn whèn sømèønè ásks yøû why yøû thìnk ÅSP ìs sø bád, yøû cán gìvè thèm án ìntèllìgènt, ìnførmèd ánswèr.

Gøød Lûck wìth yøûr cárèèr!

[goldbug]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
2 - Dip enough into ASP to get you a paying job of some sort where you can build some skills, get some experience under your belt, and keep on the look-out for that dream job as discussed in #1 above :)

Hrmm.... that sounds really familiar. :)

[greg252]

I'll tell you the problem I ran into and it sounds like you are there yourself...
Over qualified in the wrong stuff for the job market. Other posts are correct, php is not a high-demand language, neither is HTML at this time. (everyone seems to write poor HTML which is acceptable to most-grunt).
If you want a "good" web programming job, you usually end up with asp or jsp. If you want a good job (period) get your own site started and build it up.

That's my suggestion. Forget the man, you know enough. Go out and conquer the world!!
HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

[piersk]

Or, you could do what I'm doing at the moment. Get a job with a company that does ASP (yeah, you'll probably need to learn it first) and then gently persuade your supervisor that a site would work so much better in PHP.

[elToro]

I was hired to do ASP/MSSQL/VB stuff at a dinky software company. (Btw, if you know PHP, you can learn ASP in about twenty seconds. You'll hate it after about five.)

Much to my surprise (and delight), as the big boss man began to respect my opinion, I was actually able to convince to go with Open Source technologies (PHP, MySQL, Apache) for projects where it was appropriate. Whenever I was working on a project with our resident MCSE, however, it always still wound up COM+/ASP/MSSQL.

I haven't had any such luck with other employers, however. There do seem to be way more jobs for VB/ASP/.NET programmers. Bummer.

I saw the "We Need Web Developers" ads on GameSpy and got excited for a moment before saw that it was all .NET all the time. Bummer.