Connecting to the internet

[bubblenut]

I'm about to show you all exactly how much of a newb I am. I need to know how to connect my linux(RH9) box to the internet.

There are three machines in my house. Really old laptop running win2K, an almost as old desktop running win2k and mine running RH9 & win2K (mostly RH9). At the moment the laptop and the win2K desktop are connected to the internet via freeserve broadband but they have to unplug the modem to connect. What I want is to have all three of the machines going connecting to the internet together (I'm assuming through a router). I've found this cheap little four port ADSL device, is this all I need? Would it be easier to get two extra IP addresses or is is simple enough to set up the NAT so they all run off one IP?

Thanks in advance

[The Chancer]

I use an old Win2Kpro box as a router and have three machines connecting through it - but that is on a wired and wireless networks.

If you are all on the same network then the internet connection sharing will do the trick. If you aren't then you will need a proxy of some description.

Just tell each machine to use the designated machine as its proxy and it will do the rest - but the designated machine has to be on (nothing like stating the obvious huh ?)

As to configuring the RH machine I couldn't tell you, but as to configuring the windows side of things - niot a problem...

//edit
if you go down the Win2003 server route (copies available on WinMX I believe) it has the same bridging available as WinXP - therefore making it easier to connect different networks..

[bubblenut]

Originally posted by The Chancer
If you are all on the same network then the internet connection sharing will do the trick. If you aren't then you will need a proxy of some description.

The three computers are connected in no way at all at the moment. If I don't want to set up one of the computers as a router can I just have a stand alone router do the work for me fairly simply? None of the computers are going to be on 24/7 but most likely at least one of them will be on at any one time.
Thanks
[edit]
Would this (http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/hardware/modemsandadslhardware/productView.htm?quicklinx=17P8) sort of thing mean I wouldn't need to set up one of the computers as a router?

[The Chancer]

Yes you can - and that product should be able to deal with that for you. I was just trying to make use of what you had already....

The router should be able to be configues to connect and stay connected and just fire off the requests on demand from whichever you want - assuming that all machines will be using a wired connection.

Just setup the router to be defined as your default gateway in the network settings and you should be well away.

[bubblenut]

Wow, this interweb stuff is easy!! :D
Thanks Chancer

[The Chancer]

No worries...

Hope it all goes OK it 2-3 weeks when it comes back instock... LOL

[bubblenut]

Just spoke to my it admin guy and he says I should get something like this (http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/hardware/productView.htm?quicklinx=13V6) behind the modem and then set up NAT so they all run off the same IP.
Sound good?
He's offered to help set it up so probably (read definately) be easier for me.

[piersk]

Nah, you want one of these (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005KAC7/ref=amb_asin-coop-1_54708/202-4953214-8747043) if you're on DSL (i.e. ntl... you're in the UK, right?) or one of these (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000E0YHF/qid=1074173668/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_11_3/202-4953214-8747043) if you ADSL. There are more on this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/202-4953214-8747043) page...

[bubblenut]

How do I know if I'm on DSL or ADSL? I'm on the basic freeserve, had a look on their site but there doesn't seem to be any technical info.
Why are these better? What is the disadvantage of going with the 3com switch?
Thanks
PS. Yes, I'm in England.

[piersk]

Freeserve only do ADSL, but the way to tell is usually how it comes in. If it comes in through the phone line it's ADSL, if it doesn't, it's DSL.

Do you already have a routing device like one of the ones I linked to? If not, most of them have switches in them as well, so you kinda get two devices for the price of one.

I do recommend getting some sort of router like the ones shown, since normally they do NAT for you and therefore act as a firewall.

[bubblenut]

I've got no routing device but I already do have a modem (provided by freeserve) so surely I don't need the whole package? If I already have the modem what am I getting for the extra £57 (it's almost three times the price of the 3com switch!)?
Thanks for all this help, it is really appreciated.

[piersk]

If you only have a modem, then you might not be able to have more than one computer behind it. One of the great things about routers is that they perform NAT, which means you can have lots on 1 IP.

[bubblenut]

I though that this (http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/hardware/productView.htm?quicklinx=13V6) was going to do that? This seems to be getting a lot more complicated than I originally thought.

[Doug G]

Easiest is to get a cheap cable/dsl router with a built in switch, like the Linksys models that are about $50.00 US. Hook your DSL modem to the WAN input of the router. Put your computers on the private IP address subnet of 192.168.1.x.

Connect each ethernet NIC from each computer to the LAN plugs on the router. Open a web browser on one of your computers to 192.168.1.1 (Linksys) and make the necessary settings for the router to connect to your DSL service.

Enjoy surfing from any computer behind the router.

You can use Internet Connection Sharing in a windows computer which does the same kind of NAT routing, or you can configure a linux box to do NAT routing. But the external router is much simpler and easier, and you don't have to depend on a 2nd computer being up to get to the net.

[The Chancer]

True - my situation is a little different, as the server that is controlling the net access / proxy also doubles as file server and mail server for the house - so making it a multifunction machine was the easiest (and cheapest) way round.

[piersk]

Originally posted by Doug G
Easiest is to get a cheap cable/dsl router with a built in switch, like the Linksys models that are about $50.00 US. Hook your DSL modem to the WAN input of the router. Put your computers on the private IP address subnet of 192.168.1.x.

That's all very well if you have a DSL line. However, bubblenut connects using Freeserve which is an ADSL company.

[bubblenut]

Does anyone have any specific reasons why I should not go with the suggestion made by the Network manager here at work?

[piersk]

Yes, cos you need a router. That 3COM device that you (or he) is suggesting is a switch.

Difference between a switch (http://www.webopedia.com/terms/s/switch.html) and a router (http://www.webopedia.com/terms/r/router.html).

In laymans' terms, a switch means that you can connect lots of computers together, and a router is for connecting lots of computers to the Internet (or other WAN)

[dave420]

piersk - you are indeed confused :)

ADSL is DSL. DSL is the generic term for all "Digital Subscriber Lines". They include RADSL, IDSL, ADSL VDSL etc. They all work in the same way, but the exchanges are set up differently. These different standards exist due to the differences in phone lines/distances DSL is expected to work over. RADSL, for example, works better for long distances (but is slower).

No matter what sort of internet connection you have, be it dial-up, cable, DSL (of any sort) - you can put a router between the outside world and your network. If it's dial-up you'll need a special router/modem, but it is easily done.

[piersk]

Although DSL is what ntl: call their cable modem service (or at least one of their techie guys did) i.e. down is the same (or pretty close to) up, whereas with ADSL down is usually about twice as fast as up

[dave420]

Cable is completely, utterly different to DSL. If their tech guy called cable DSL he needs to brush up on his terminology. They're as similar as a submarine is to a whale. They go the same places, but they're completely different. Perpetrating usage of the term "DSL" to mean cable is seriously hazardous to the internet community :)

ADSL is faster downloading than uploading. That's what the A means (asynchronous). IDSL is synchronous (meaning both upstream and downstream speeds are the same). Cable, funnily enough, also has different download/upload speeds.

So, basically, (DSL==ADSL) && (DSL!=Cable). :)

[Weedpacket]

Originally posted by dave420
piersk - you are indeed confused :)

ADSL is DSL. DSL is the generic term for all "Digital Subscriber Lines". Except if you went to your broadband ISP and asked for DSL you probably wouldn't get ADSL.

[piersk]

Both telewest broadband and ntl: call their service which uses a cable modem DSL.

If I went to pretty much any ISP, and asked them for their DSL service, they either wouldn't have the faintest idea what I was talking about and probably get very confused (more likely) or say that they don't have a DSL service to offer.

oh, and FYI, IDSL is actually a way of providing broadband over an ISDN conenction

[dave420]

I have a blueyonder (telewest) cable account, and they most certainly do not call it DSL. Both telewest and NTL call it "broadband", and not DSL. DSL is something completely different to cable. Different wires, different infrastructure, different ideology. The only similarity is they're both ways to get data into a house.

Are you from the UK? Do you know every single ISP in the country knows EXACTLY the difference between cable and DSL? That's their game. It would be like a butcher calling pork "beef" because they both go in sandwiches, or Apple calling "OS X" "Windows" because they both use the mouse. The technologies are so fundamentally different the interchangability of their names is 0.

I'm not trying to start an argument (far from it), but I can't see how you've come to the conclusions you have.

(IDSL is "Integrated Digital Subscriber Line", which just means a bundled digital connection over existing infrastructure, which includes over ISDN, but also includes regular phone lines.)

[piersk]

Originally posted by dave420
Are you from the UK? Do you know every single ISP in the country knows EXACTLY the difference between cable and DSL?

Of course I don't but having spoken to both telewest and ntl people, they both called it DSL.

[dave420]

Then why is it called "broadband" on their websites, and they have absolutely, positively 100% no mention of "DSL"? :)

[piersk]

Originally posted by piersk
Of course I don't but having spoken to both telewest and ntl people, they both called it DSL.