Web application design help

[pbreah]

I have almost a year working, reading and practicing with PHP. But I feel somewhat clueless of what to do, how to plan and/or organize a project step by step effectively, and how get a flow of ideas to get me going. I know there are a lot of ready to use PHP aplications out there, but I wish to start my own or be a volunteer on a big PHP project. The knowledge of PHP is useless without applying it to big projects or a full web application, rather than small useless scripts.

Does anyone has any recommendation of a book that would get me started in developing my own projects showing an effective workflow, and how to organize ideas into a working application.

Thanks.... :confused:

[id10t]

Check the unix programming philosophy stuff - "small useless scripts" that do just one task and do it well is what it is all about, for large tasks you break it down to small problems and use those little useless things to solve them.

[pbreah]

I know that a big project is broken down into small scripts. But my point is as whole, one script alone. I want to be able to make a project with 15 to 20 or even more script files who knows depending on the project.

Does anyone recommends a good book to conquer the planing design and implementation of a project with a smooth workflow from start to end?

Thanks....

[AstroTeg]

You're almost asking for computer science theory in an easy to read book. If it was that simple, I'd think there'd be more people jumping into the coding scene.

I don't have any recommendations, especially in PHP. There's project design approaches, but I haven't gotten that far into the computer science degree to get to learn about them (I'm positive they're coming up though). You could try finding one of these books, but one question would be would it still apply to coding a PHP site? Maybe. Maybe not.

One thing I can leave you with: divide and conquer. Determine the problem you want to solve. Is it too big? Divide it again. Is it too big? If yes, divide it again (rinse and repeat) Can you directly solve the problem? If yes, you've conquered. If no, keep dividing.

Some people have to write out the notes to the program they wish to create. Others can juggle it all in their head. If you're starting out, I'd recommend jotting as much down on paper as you can. Focus on the unknowns or the "show stoppers" as I like to call them (they're the ones where if they don't work, your app is toast).

As I reread your comments, it might just be a matter of program organization and how to handle all the files. This tends to take practice with the particular language and what works best for you. If this is the case, download a bunch of large scale PHP apps and check out how those coders setup the files and directories and how they called those files.

[Weedpacket]

If it's a matter of programming mindset, then when looking for something like this, take "PHP" out of the search terms :). Programming is programming no matter what the environment, although some environments make some types of programming easier than others.

One book you might want to look at is Eric Raymond's The Art of Unix Programming (http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/). Obviously, it has a Un*x bias (which is described therein), but it is more generally applicable and does cover at least some aspects of the software development process.

[pbreah]

Thanks guys... I'll keep looking for more in depth info...

[davidjam]

I just read your initial post and it seems to me that the very fact that you are aware of the need for application design means that you're probably going to be ok. I'm in the process of building a project management system for the company I work for. I started last year and made a really big mess because I had no idea what I was doing. Now I am just finishing the "big cleanup" and it is running quite smoothly, although it is just core tech., I have yet to actually build the pages.

So I would say, and I am a beginner, define your need and then just start building to resolve that need and even if you make a mess (and repent of it) you will learn and do better the next time. MHO.

[pohopo]

If you are looking strictly at the programming and architecture side of the development then I would recommend 'Professional PHP 5' from Wrox.

If you are looking to be a lead in a full project I highly recommend you read 'Rapid Development' by Steve McConnell. It is a great language independant book on building medium to large projects (ones that require more then one person to manage and build).