PostgreSQL

[pohopo]

Why is this not more widely available as an option on hosts? Especially since it is free and functionally more powerful then MySQL? I have not used PostgreSQL, so not sure if maybe it is difficult to setup or not user friendly.

[Sxooter]

Mostly this is because of historical reasons. Back in the day (i.e. three or so years ago) PostgreSQL required a bit more hand holding and wasn't as robust in a multi-user hosting environment.

Enough changes have been made to address all of these issues (i.e. auto vacuuming, finer grained security settings, schemas, etc... etc...) but since most hosts already have MySQL up and running, and it's a pretty good database for simple, non-critical web apps, it's maintained it's hold on hosting providers.

That said, there are quite a number of hosting providers nowadays who provide pgsql as an option, but few if any of the "free" providers have it as an option.

Note that if you are developing an application to use postgresql, a couple of the companies that provide the infrastructure support for PostgreSQL will provide you with free space to work in and develop on.

[goldbug]

When I was calling around for hosting options, one of the reasons I was given had something to do with the way Postgres utilizes shared memory (was looking at virtual dedicated servers, shared memory defeated certain safeguards and configurations).
It could also be a manpower issue--I'd bet there are quite a bit more MySQL-knowledgeable admins in the field versus their Postgres counterparts. (Just a guess)

There are a couple inexpensive hosts I've found that do offer PostgreSQL. I've been happy so far with my current host, CWI Hosting (http://www.cwihosting.com/), and there are others out there with similar-valued setups.

[Sxooter]

Yeah, the shared memory issue could certainly cause issues if you were looking at each user having their own postgresql instance instead of sharing databases in one cluster.

You don't really need much expertise to keep MySQL happy compared to PostgreSQL. Just knowing how to run the table repair util is about all you need to keep mysql happy. :)

[pohopo]

what they need to do is integrate the database into hosting control panels. you do that then it should flourish. if there really is a memory issue when creating multiple database on one server then maybe PostGre will need to stay in the private larger scale projects.

Thanks for the insight!

[Weedpacket]

Originally posted by pohopo
what they need to do is integrate the database into hosting control panels. You mean something like PHPPgAdmin (http://phppgadmin.sourceforge.net/)?

[Sxooter]

Originally posted by pohopo
what they need to do is integrate the database into hosting control panels. you do that then it should flourish. if there really is a memory issue when creating multiple database on one server then maybe PostGre will need to stay in the private larger scale projects.

Thanks for the insight!

I think webmin handles postgresql pretty well.

The only memory issue for postgresql is setting mutiple clusters on the same machine. One cluster can quite securely and reliably handle hundreds or even thousands of individual databases, so it's only an issue when folks decide to have one cluster per customer.

[Sxooter]

Originally posted by goldbug
When I was calling around for hosting options, one of the reasons I was given had something to do with the way Postgres utilizes shared memory (was looking at virtual dedicated servers, shared memory defeated certain safeguards and configurations).

I would like to see those safeguards and configurations that have problems with shared memory. it's not like it's any more or less secure than any other way of IPC or sharing data between child processes that I'm familiar with.

[goldbug]

Call them and find out for yourself if you'd like:

http://www.65535.net/support/freebsdtechnical.php
(note bottom bullet point about shared memory)

My guess is that it has something to do with the fact that one might be able to break Postgres and it's shared memory usage, giving access to other registers outside the jail that I'm guessing these run inside. Not sure how they have them set up exactly, so this is all speculation :) Also, this might just be limited to FreeBSD (they mention that 5.x might not have this issue), so linux VDS/VPS might be fine with it (aka, not a Postgres issue)

[Sxooter]

Oh yeah, I'm familiar with FreeBSD's issues with shared mem and jails.

In a hosting environment where everyone gets a virtual server, this is an issue.

A hosting provider could theoretically provide one big postgresql server and then virtialized apache / php / whatever servers for the front ends...

[pohopo]

Since PostgreSQL seemed like a good alternate I decided to email my host and ask why they did not have this database. 3 days go by with no answer. This is suprising as they are usually really good at responding. Well, I get an email today and they said I was right they did not have it, however they just installed it so it is now available. I go look in cpanel and see PostGre with phpPgAmdin.

[Sxooter]

Sweet! Let us know how it works out...

[csn]

Originally posted by Sxooter
Enough changes have been made to address all of these issues (i.e. auto vacuuming, finer grained security settings, schemas, etc... etc...)
Isn't auto vacuuming still left out (though it lives in contrib)?

[Sxooter]

Yep, autovacuum isn't integrated into the backend just yet. Should be for 8.1. For rpm installs it's in an extra rpm. Definitely a module that most servers should have installed.

[pohopo]

Sweet! Let us know how it works out... I will. I will probably pick up a PostGre book this week. It should not be too hard as databases are all so similar.

[bubblenut]

Like programming languages. Some have funky features others don't at the expense of other funky features. Postgre has geographical types :drool:
When I've made my cool app (probably about three or four years from now knowing me) I'll be sure to show :D