When is helping not helping?

[leatherback]

Yeah..

I noticed a few times today that people just come in and place their request, write me this, write me that. When do you stop answering questions like that, and when is it time to refer to the manual?

J

[dalecosp]

Immediately :evilgrin:

[MikeSnead]

Well... questions that start with "write me this" are immediately ignored, indeed!

Generally, if the person posting seems genuine in there need for help (that's a vague answer I know) I will take the time and often play around with a slice of code they give. Course if they post a 1000 line chunk of code... then heck no! :)

[laserlight]

If I find the problem interesting, I may go so far as to solve it.
Otherwise, I'll see if the person has made some attempt to solve it, and direct him/her to the appropriate place in the manual if he/she is lost.

[bubblenut]

When is helping not helping?
When I do it :p

[BuzzLY]

My favorite answer to "can anyone write this for me?"


"Yes."

Next question, please.

[planetsim]

Originally posted by BuzzLY
My favorite answer to "can anyone write this for me?"


"Yes."

Next question, please.

Buzz your never much for words are you :p

Im gonna have to agree with the majority if someone wants someone to write code if I reply its usually to tell them to make an attempt or just like most completely ignore them (it amazes me how some just keep asking)

Of course if they have made an attempt, posted code Id try and help, if they post code, errors tell me what they have havent done then I more than happy to help.

[Jason Batten]

As a noob I have to agree, I would never expect or "demand" in a question that someone write me a script. You can not expect someone to simply write you a script. I suggest just pointing them too hotscripts and the php manual. Although that manual takes a little while to get use to, which I think you "experts" fail to understand from the noob point of view.

Trying to explain why it is not a good idea to simply ask for a script to every single newbie is pointless. Give them the two options, which are to find a script themselves or to learn PHP. There is no point in saying anything more.

It helps no one to post smart remarks like "Yes" or something of a similiar nature. Treat people in the manner that you would like to be treated.

[planetsim]

I dont think its all that hard, I think its just that most people think Manual and think of this huge unorganized book with no user comments.

If a newbie was pointed to the manual to a specific thing if they dont understand read the user comments if there arent any if not they should reply after reading and attempting to understand that they dont. Its a good way to learn the manual setup and hopefully learn PHP and find some free snippets of code.

[Jason Batten]

I don't think it is hard either, I think it is difficult to at first understand. Like anything it takes time to learn it.

I think that the PHP manual is a great resource for those who are beyond the basics, it is a good reference tool. I have used it a few times since I started.

[leatherback]

Originally posted by NetNerd85
I have used it a few times since I started.

hehe,

I have used it a couple of times since I started TODAY!

Guess I chekc the manual 20-30 times a day when I am really building a new tool. Fortunately, that doesn't happen too often anymore. Most scripts I use are now just sitten, waiting to be put together..

J.

[BuzzLY]

Saying "Yes" is simply a way for me to use a little humor to convey to the person asking the question that they should rephrase their question. It is not disrespectful, and in my opinion is more helpful than not saying anything at all.

I always treat people here exactly the way I wish to be treated. As a self-described noob, I guess you wouldn't know that. But I won't hold that against you :)

[Weedpacket]

When they haven't done anything to help with.

As for answering "Yes".

http://homepages.tesco.net/~J.deBoynePollard/FGA/questions-with-yes-or-no-answers.html

Don't expect the culture to change to suit inappropriate standards.

[thorpe]

yeah... this whole subject has been bugging me for weeks now. ive just decided that from now on i'll just ignore these "i need this" threads. most of the time these people dont want to learn, they just want it done. and frankly, i cant be bothered.

[vaaaska]

I have sympathy for folks who can't grasp some things...I was there in the past. Now, at least I know when I don't know.

But when people want to mouth off novel-length responses about the problem with programmers in general or the fact that 'it's still not working' I feel a little harrumphed.

[leatherback]

Hehe,

I saw a post just now where that happened.. "Learn how to program better code and use functions" or something, wasn't it?

I agreed.. The solution was in the first response. Now we are at message 15 there, and still he is not happy, too much work, he said..?

J.

[vaaaska]

Yeah...and a thread from last week. There was this guy who would write like 800 words for every response. "Did you read my question...the problem with programmers...the rest of us...i'm not a newbie." Anyways, the guy was clearly brilliant but needed to calm down.

If my help some days isn't the best...so what. I know I've helped alot of folks in the past year.

[leatherback]

Yeah,

And it is great wqhen A person seems to have spent hours on solving his problem, and by swapping a few lines of code around, it works. Or you get these pages of code, and you can reduce them to one command. Great.

I am happy that I am getting past that stage where you really have no clue as to where to start on a problem. But what happened with -read the manual -> search the forum -> try -> ask a question?

J.

[BuzzLY]

Originally posted by leatherback
... what happened with -read the manual -> search the forum -> try -> ask a question?

J. Many people end up reordering that list from the easiest to the most difficult. Others modify it a bit:

Ask a question.
Wait for a lengthy, comprehensive suggestion, then say "I tried that already."
Wait for yet another well thought-out suggestion, try it, then say "That didn't work" (and don't bother to elaborate).
Ignore suggestion to use an elegant switch solution and explain how you solved it yourself with 52 nested if-then-else statements.
Make sure you say "thanks anyway" so that those that tried to help you feel like they have completely wasted their time.

[dalecosp]

Originally posted by BuzzLY
Many people end up reordering that list from the easiest to the most difficult. Others modify it a bit:

Ask a question.
Wait for a lengthy, comprehensive suggestion, then say "I tried that already."
Wait for yet another well thought-out suggestion, try it, then say "That didn't work" (and don't bother to elaborate).
Ignore suggestion to use an elegant switch solution and explain how you solved it yourself with 52 nested if-then-else statements.
Make sure you say "thanks anyway" so that those that tried to help you feel like they have completely wasted their time. quite right :rolleyes:

You are quite the student of abnormal human nature, BuzzLY. I salute you! :)

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by dalecosp
You are quite the student of abnormal human nature, BuzzLY. I salute you! :) Student, nothing... he's the MASTER of abnormal human nature.

[BuzzLY]

Thank you, Betsy. That really means a lot, coming from the ORIGINATOR of abnormal human nature. :D

[dalecosp]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Student, nothing... he's the MASTER of abnormal human nature. Now, now; let's not pick on BuzzLY too much ... I might have to show him that picture of you and your college girlfriends at the bar ... :D

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by dalecosp
I might have to show him that picture of you and your college girlfriends at the bar ... :D Which one?

[BuzzLY]

Bah. Who do you think TOOK the pictures?

[Elizabeth]

Originally posted by BuzzLY
Bah. Who do you think TOOK the pictures? Gasp! You told me you destroyed the only copy of those! Great...:rolleyes:

[leatherback]

Hey Buzzly,

Are those the pic's you put on that website?

J.

[dalecosp]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Which one? The one showing the "abnormal human behavior", of course. :D

<back OT>Why do I get the feeling that I'm "not helping" ? ;) </back OT>

[BuzzLY]

No, she doesn't know about those pics.

[leatherback]

good..!

[Elizabeth]

Abnormality is just a matter of perception... thank goodness for me.

[BuzzLY]

I imagine that from your perspective, most people are quite normal, eh? :D

[Elizabeth]

Actually, I think I'm the only who IS normal-- everyone else is a little off. :)

[dalecosp]

Originally posted by Elizabeth
Actually, I think I'm the only who IS normal-- everyone else is a little off. :) That fits the profile, of course ;-)