Seeks Advice for Developer Resource: CFML

[ATS16805]

Hello. I've come here to ask this question because, of all of the forums in which i participate regularly, this is the one that comes to mind when i consider "who is going to have the best advice for my problem", relatively speaking of course.


I'm fortunate enough to have got a gig doing Web Design/ Development work part-time. One of the reasons that i got the job is because i have some experience in ColdFusion. By "some experience", i mean, have worked in the language a bit, developing very simple apps both through tutorial and with my own ideas-- but this was before i began studying PHP so i wasn't able to comprehend the concepts as well as i am now.

Before i go any further, i want to comment that we PHP developers-- especially those self-taught as myself, i think really take the Manual for granted. I seriously doubt that there would be nearly as many PHP self-educated if it weren't for the extraordinarily well documented Manual at php.net. While, on the contrary, ColdFusion seems to be extraordinarily poorly documented! Sure, there are community forum type web sites out there (which are great, of course, for supplemental support)-- but it seems if you don't find an enthusiasts' site with precisely what you're looking for-- you're pretty much out of luck-- unless of course you're ready to do a lot of trial and error w/ what documentation is available at Macromedia.com (ahem... excuse me, Adobe.com!)

Fortunately, ColdFusion, by nature (as was its purpose, i believe) seems relatively easy for the novice. However, i'm having difficulty with some stuff-- but it's really a lack of knowledge on the functions and apparent lack of community support, rather than sheer difficulty due to complexity.

the reason i'm posting here really is that, as i said earlier, i appreciate the helpful attitude of the members of PHPBuilder.com, so i wonder, with all due respect, does anyone out there have a suggested resourece for educating oneself in ColdFusion development? I realize that i'm probably not going to find something nearly as helpful as the PHP Manual, but anything that you believe might be a useful learning resource (rather than a copy/ paste "here's a program that does ____ and ___" type site. know what i mean? i'm looking to learn it, not just copy code bits of code and cross my fingers (although that's largely what i've found when searching).

thanks!

PS. and what about DB resources? is it worth it to bother w/ MS Access? why does that program seem to make no sense to me compared to MySQL? i feel so stupid when trying to use it! i mean... forget phpMyAdmin... even the MySQL command line seems an easier way to "visualize" a db than MS Access! advice? (sorry to divert the thread there!)

[bpat1434]

MS Access... a JOKE!!! Use Postgre or mySQL.... they're FREE!!

As for coldfusion, if there's no documentation at macromedia.adobe.com, then I'd say there are a couple books you might look at.
Amazon.com search (http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=br_ss_hs/103-4759772-2559001?search-alias=aps&keywords=Coldfusion) turns up a few like "Colfusion for dummys" and "Coldfusion MX Programming". You might just end up having to buy a book, or an e-book. I honestly have never seen documentation on it, except for: the stuff off macromedia's site (http://www.macromedia.com/support/documentation/en/coldfusion/index.html)

[Weedpacket]

Access was simply not designed for a web environment (okay, maybe my knowledge is outdated, but I've had no reason to give it any consideration for several years and I don't see Microsoft doing anything to Access to make it compete with SQL Server). The fact that it can be used is purely due to certain technical requirements being met - the same way you can use a teaspoon to dig a fishpond.

My plug would be for PostgreSQL. You've got the commandline interface, if you were using PHP there'd be PHPPgAdmin, and there's a GUI interface for Windows (which doesnt' resemble Access's).

[bpat1434]

mySQL has a GUI for windows, it's just separate....

MS Access could be used for web stuff, but it's very old, outdated, and you have to use ASP (to my knowledge) to get it working. I used to use it to create a site, but have since seen the light of Open Source. :)

[ATS16805]

i'm no expert on the db terminology, but as far as i know, MS Access can be used w/ anything that is capabable of connecting via ODBC (including PHP, of course). MS created ODBC, i believe-- in fact, MS Access may have been the premiere odbc software? am i talkin' crazy talk? i'd swear i've read that.

the major limitation to access is that it is only able to handle a few simultaneous connections... like 8 or something. it's really strictly for development, and Intranet html-- which is why i presume we hear about it so much. no one really uses it, except the people who actually know how to use it, and what it's for-- yet, those are the same people who write the scripts that float around in forums, so web kids grab 'em and think access is the way to go. i dunno. i just made that up, but it probably isn't too far from the truth.

our director has already installed MS SQL server, but when i asked "would you like me to learn to use that? should i just start developing w/ that in mind now then?"-- his reply was "let's keep it simple" (apparently, MS SQL is in place for something other than storing data for use in web application scripting... i think he said something about he's using it for securing the server?... something to do w/ the server(s), but not server side scripting developing, apparently), so you see-- i am constrained by his own level of expertise.

it will probably make more sense if i at least mention that i am working for a "College of Education"-- specifically for a department which focuses on integrating science and technology into the classroom (meaning, teaching future-teachers about ways in which they might take advantage of the technology available to them). so as far as i'm concerned, at least at the moment, to use MS Access is okay because the point here isn't to develop the most efficient, streamlined apps. the point is to be able to put ideas "down on paper" (digital paper, of course!) and to foster an environment for a group of students-teachers to get a taste for developing simple apps in a dynamic web-data environent. for example: "let's show this future-science-teacher how he or she might use to demonstrate the process of photosynthesis to a group of 5th graders. how might he create a better learning environment for the children by creating a simple way for them to interact with each other?". if these student-teachers are presented w/ the prospect of installing and configuring, not to mention learning to program Postgres and some Server Scripting language-- and it all bears down upon them as so overwhelming, and they were to become discouraged or intimidated, then the whole point of our technology center is not only skewed but it certainly wouldn't be a very good program for teachers because they'd probably get nothing out of it. on the other hand, if a handful of teachers graduate w/ the knowledge that they can use a database to interact w/ web sites and they come up w/ ideas for curriculum, and go off on their own and learn to use mysql over the summer, or whatever the case may be-- then, it is a success. obviously, we're going for the latter. i'm "the new guy" there, so-- all this is what it appears to be so far. you know academia-- it's sometimes difficult to figure out if they're talking about apples or oranges... i think sometimes they make it up as they go along!

blah, blah... as for cfml, i have a book on loan [i]Core ColdFusion 5 by Eben Hewitt, published by Prentice Hall. it supposedly had an accompanying web site www.corecoldfusion.com , but this book is four years old, so... it's not there as far as i can tell. wish i could find those files though! this is a really good book, i think. i also have a more contemporary CFMX book by Ben Forta, but IMHO, Hewitt is not only a better author, but the slightly dated context is what i needed-- getting it from the beginning, ya know? Forta's book seems to be directed at a veteran MM programmer audience whereas Hewitt is still talkin' HomeSite and Allaire in parts. in summary, i'm having fun w/ it. it's okay, but i think i caught on to PHP more easily. Hewitt mentions Fusebox methodology, which i might investigate some day if i'm asked to continue w/ cfml.

thanks for your input on this thread!

[bpat1434]

Here's my tip for you:
Code to the SQL1992 standard. Every database has adopted its basics, so if you write general queries, you're guaranteed to be able to move from mySQL to MSSQL, Postgre, Firebird and such with very little editing if any at all. O'Reilly published a good book: Learning SQL. In it Bealieau (I think that's the proper spelling, don't have the book in front of me, too lazy to look it up) gives you everything you need to know to start in SQL. He mentions the minute differences between some functions or terminology between SQL servers, and in the end just gives you what you can use on almost any SQL server.

And in the appendices he goes more in depth into mySQL specific functions. But it's a good book none-the-less.

[Weedpacket]

I've seen Access used as the dbms backend in an academic environment. It were not a pretty sight. It was demoed to the prospective course developers who were going to be using it - at least, twelve of them plus a couple of interested parties (including Yours Truly). It died within half an hour, with everyone looking at a site that was utterly failing to respond.

MS Access can be used w/ anything that is capabable of connecting via ODBCLike I said: "certain technical requirements...". Both teaspoons and spades can be used to convey granular material from one location to another, but which one would you use to dig a fishpond?

Access was intended for the desktop environment - one computer, one (human) user, with programs running on that computer that might need database services (specifically, the other applications in the Office suite). Microsoft have a different DBMS product for a network environment.