I am looking for the best dedicate server hosting package for php/mysql web sites.

[blackhorse]

OK, I have 3 options, but I am looking for the 4th option if it is better than other 3.

I am php/mysql programmer, and I have general knowledge of unix and server management. Basically, I can mange the daily works of the web server. Updates and change some set ups etc. But if some emergency situations happend, I call for 3rd party unix experts' help.

Now here are 3 options I have

1) rent a server from local hosting service:

advantages:

they have experienced unix expert, and on call 24/7. i have been using their server for years and know general set up of the server. when the server has problems, they can and they usually fix it quickly. also i can give them the best information about possible causes of the problems from my past experience due to i have been using their server and its simple set up for years.

and they can install software, packages, updates at our requests quickly.

they know their system, and know us and I know them, i can depend on them if there is server emergency situation i need to handle.

And they are local, if I have to, i can go to their office to talk to them. Even if the server hardware fail, i know they could help me bring it back from backup and form the server recovery info, as quick as they can. that is the most comfortable part of hosting with them.

disadvantages:

month traffic cost us 150-200 dollars a month, if i am on a big hosting service, I am even not over the 1/10 of the free traffic the big hosting service will give.

the machine might be old, even it is enough for our current usage now, but it may cause some problems once a while (usually once a year), when this kind problem happens, the server becomes unstable. and it takes the local hosting service quite a while, usually 1-2 months after 4-5 incidents and then get them attention to dig out the root of the problems and fix it to bring the server back to stable stage. that is the biggest concern i have.

so I am also checking out other hosting options.

2) 1 & 1 root access hosting

install with the new packages, easy to use user interface, powerful machine, free month traffic that i will never be over the limit of it. seems perfect?

but for their root access server, after i sign up and get the server, i am on my own. they only fix the hardware problem after that. even if i am offering to pay them to do some system works, such as if there is a server system crashes etc., they wouldn't be able to help me. because after the set up, "it is totally my responsiblity." I have general knowledge of running web server without 3rd party help, but i don't feel comfortable that even in a system emergency situation (such as if system is under attack etc.) i cannot find 1&1 system experts to help me out.

so it leads to the 3rd option

3) 1 & 1 managed server

it is same as root access server, except, 1 & 1 will manage it, update it, back up it, and fix it if there is a system software problem. And I will not have the root access, i will have the access like a shared hosting account. But with the a dedecicated server.

It seems solving the problems i have in the option 1) and 2), but the problems are I may have to live with their general set up, and live with their update scheduale. Say if I need some pakcages they didn't install, such as firebird database, or if I need the new versions of php or mysql in the future before their scheduled updates, i may not get it.

my php/mysql web sites are usually in general set up. their managed serve will satisfy my 95% needs. The problem is I may have another 5% needs that not in their general set up. So either I have to give up my 5% individual needs and work arond them, or I cannot use the managed server.

In simple words, the small local hosting company's server may be old and may not have too many features installed, but it is simple set up with the major features. I can depends on their tech supports (I cannot just talk to a person right away, i know them personally.) but their machine are old, and when it becomes unstable, it takes a few weeks 4-5 incidents to bring it back to stable status.

1&1 root access, has the new machine, large free traffic, i can do anything with the server. but if i need them help for the software, i may be out of luck.

1&1 managed server, 1&1 will take care of the mangement of the server, but i may have 5% needs cannot be satisfied by the managed server general set up. i may have to give up this 5%.

So is there 4th option combine all above advantages?

4) managed powerful server with large free traffic on a large hosting company. they will mange the server maintenance, updates, back up etc for me, but i still can have root access, and the hosting company's system expert can be on call 24/7 if there is emergency or if i need them to do some unique system set up works for me (of course, i am willing to pay for this service.)

Any suggestions from your experience.

Thanks!

[blackhorse]

Basically I am looking for a hosting package can be as good as 1&1 offers in the performance but with more personal and human contacts and supports like the local hosting guys offer.

[bpat1434]

I don't know of any of those types of companies. But I use ManageMyBox and they're great. I've upgraded my server with them, and I've also had support requests answered in less than 4 hours time. The longest support request was when my server went down (the only time so far) and it took almost 6 hours to come back up. But that was on a weekend (a national holiday no less) so it took longer than usual.

Overall, I've been extremely happy with them. They're extremely helpful and extremely quick. So there's a 4th. ManageMyBox to me has been great. I can't complain too much.

I do know someone that works for LayeredTech. He set up my box on ManageMyBox secured it for me. Knows exactly what he's doing (30+ years experience), and it's been serving me well for a few months now. So they're another service to look at.

Hope that helps.

[piersk]

The best? I'd suggest someone like Rackspace. Be prepared to pay quite a lot of money for it.


Just another thought (and this may be like the 1&1 root access server that you mentioned above) but have you thought of a Virtual Private Server? That would mean you get memory and HD space that you and only you have access to, without paying the large bills that would come with co-locating or a dedicated machine.

[blackhorse]

Right now, the physical or dedicated server doesn't cost too much. My biggest problem is not the cost of 1&1. Actually they are relatively cheap.

My problems are

1) root access server: I am not comfortable that 1&1 will not have tech support for me even if my root access server under hackers attack, and I am willing to pay for that service. I cannot sleep well that knowing if my system crashes that I have to call for 3rd party linux/unix expert to help me.

2) managed server: since 1&1 tries to keep it to the simplest set up that they would be easy to manage. basically it is designed to one client (that client can have several domains, etc.) not for shared hosting. I will not have the easy to use plesk user interface. I will have to manage all my clients emails etc. by myself. And all the extra set up and updates I have no rights to request. I am on their mercy, i will get what they give. Now, the system is new. I may be able to run all my sites on the server with minor fixes. But how about future, I am sure that I might run into some problems their set up cannot work.

I know there is no perfect solution, but I am looking for either

1) more like my current local hosting now but the traffic will not be so expensive. and the machine could be newer.

or

2) more like 1&1 root access server but at least with some emergency software/system support (it could be at 100 dollars an hour etc.) that i can depend on.

or

3) more like 1&1 managed server but design for shared hosting environment. (they manage the server for me, but at least the server was designed support shared hosting, such as plesk and other shared hosting features.)

[blackhorse]

thanks bpat1434, I checked out managedbox. it seems they have cheaper traffic than my local hosting guys offer. Others, they might be the same. I know my local hosting guys and trusted their skills, just like you know them personally.

managedbox doesn't have a phone number on their web site? You got to know them personally like you said so you knew they are good, before you sign up to host with them. still thanks!

[bpat1434]

Yeah, no phone numbers, but through email and IM I've gotten to know them a bit. The guy I know personally works for LayeredTech. But he also is a pretty big guy for cPanel as well.

I took a chance (after doing plenty of homework) and it worked out.

[schwim]

I've used GoDaddy for my last two ded servers, one FC 4 and one CentOS. They offer managed service, like you speak of, and their service has been a-ok in my book. The one time I had a problem is when I ended up with a bad stick of memory on a new server and it took me a month to find the problem. The tech guys weren't much help. They just kept saying that the file system was a mess and I should reinstall the system. It was brand new and other than updating php/cpanel/mysql, it had not been messed with. You can get ignorant techs anywhere though.

I pay about 230 a month for my latest one with them P4 3Ghz dual core/2Gb memory/dual 120Gb raid array/unlimited remote backup/500Gb transfer as well as some other options I wanted. The only two things I don't get from them when ordering a new server is the hardware firewall and the management system.

thanks,
json

[stolzyboy]

I've heard good things about hostgator's managed dedicated servers.

http://www.hostgator.com/dedicated.shtml

[bpat1434]

That must be night and day compared to their shared servers.......

[piersk]

Is it just me, or is it a really stupid thing to show "sold out" on something like a dedicated server? That says to me "they haven't thought enough about expansion".

[bpat1434]

Possibly, or it could be that "it's so high in demand, we've got more on order"... Kind of like being sold out of particular Dell's. It happens. Just means it's more popular than they expected.

[blackhorse]

So any bad words about their shared servers?

I talked to them. It looks like I was talking to an IT guy, professional with technology, casual at answering sales calls. How big are they? That guy told me they host 1% of internet, that couldn't be for real. But how big really are they?

If they are realtively a big company, how can they afford to have a real IT professional to answer the regular sales calls instead of an outsourced foreign salesman on the phone?

Well, you want a big hosting company with a human face when you look for a hosting server, right?

Thanks!

[stolzyboy]

Their shared servers have gotten MUCH better in the past few months... they are expanding more every day.

Their dedicated servers are exceptional and yes, they are sold out as they are in high demand. A dedicated server is just that, one dedicated server all to yourself with which you can do whatever you want with, legally, of course, and you can rely on them for support if there is anything you can't figure out.

And yes, they are relatively large, and yes, the 1% hosted is correct. I can't find the page where it shows that at the moment, but it is true.

If you go to their site, I think it shows their company history and statistics about them.

Yes, you can view some company information here: http://www.hostgator.com/company.shtml

[stolzyboy]

FYI, I have NO stake or anything in Hostgator, I just use and like their services.

I previously used OLM.net but found them to be lacking in support and uptime.

[blackhorse]

when I talked with the sales guy from hostgator, he seemed more like an IT professioanl, not a trained salesman. he even answered the phone by "yeah!" I like this part. More like the guys from my local hosting company. But I cannot stop wondering if they are so big, how can they afford to put an IT guy on the sales line? I know I am picky here. oursourced guy in the other side of the world knowing nothing except something you already found on the web page drove me made, but an IT professioanl on the sale line makes me think, how did they afford that? thanks! I will definately check them out again.

If anyone has experiece with them, please share with me here.

Also if anyone has experiece with 1&1 managed server, also I would like to hear about it. Even it may not be fitting my own requirements. If the managed server of 1&1 is stable and if the update and support are in time, I could recommend it to some of my projects' clients. Thanks!

[cgraz]

Have you looked at mediatemple (http://www.mediatemple.net)? I have used them for years and loved them. Their tech support actually knows what they are doing - they know Linux quite well and can work the command line. I've never waited more than 2 minutes when calling in, and usually get through within 0-10 seconds.

They also can migrate you from one server to another as you grow with very little downtime if any.

[blackhorse]

I called mediatemple. Their offers are more like 1&1 root access, after I get the server, I am on my own totally.

So far only the hostgator offers the root access and tech support if i want.

[blackhorse]

About hostgator, 1 small thing was missing. They don't offer backup services for dedicate server. But they said I could buy an extra hard driver from them. And I can back up my server to that hard driver through a cron work. But that hard drive may be installed at the same machine. So I am covered from the major hard drive failure but not some other physical disasters if it knocks the machine or both hard drives down. I guess I can also use ftp download the database everyday and maybe ftp download the all web sites every week just to be at the safe side.

[stolzyboy]

yeah, they say to get the 2 HD package, then just copy your cpanel/whm over to the backup server... as far as catastrophic failure, there is always that chance... but you take that chance anywhere, regardless what the hosting service says.

[bpat1434]

For shared space (or maybe more like VPS) I personally really like Mosso (http://www.mosso.com). It's an interesting concept having Linux and Windows available to any site and still give you "dedicated" space and bandwidth at an affordable price.

If I have to give up my dedicated box, or I can't find a better deal than my current one, I may go to them soon.

[blackhorse]

bpat1434, do you go to Mosso yet? or find better ones?

[bpat1434]

I tried them out for a few monhts, and they were good. Nothing really to complain about. Currently I'm helping test what's called a "FlexServer" from Flosoft which is a dedicated box, with SAN storage. It's not entirely dedicated, but the CPU & RAM are dedicated, while you share storage space on the SAN with others. You can't see who else is on your SAN, so it's pretty nice.

But that won't be available to public until probably late feb. if not early march. But it's a good product, and is very cost effective for those who can't pay $100 for a good dedicated server ;)

Servage, while being an overseller, does have good service. They are who I'm currently hosted with (as I had no need to spend $100/ month on a "dedicated" box when I don't need it). So I'm hosted with them, and there's a reason I went back. They give you plenty of space with plenty of bandwidth. Not to mention, they're constantly upgrading their space. So while I signed up for like 350GB of space, I'm currently getting somewhere around 365GB or so.

[blackhorse]

Thanks!

Any other hosting service anyone can recommend?

My hosting requirements are still the same:

1) good large stable hosting services with up to date box and cheap bandwidth, and allow me to have root access, like mediatemple or 1&1.

but

2) also offer custom set up services and technical support for the box if I need to update or if the box fails.

Like I mentioned before 1&1 root access server doesn't offer the custom set up, and tech support except for the hardware only.

After research, I may need two servers soon anyway, my plan is

1) I will have a 1&1 managed server, which I will have to live with whatever 1&1 offers now, and whenever they want to update, I will host my simple, old or less custom set up requirements sites on the managed server. (this should cover most of my sites.)

2) Then I will look for another hosting for other sites, more like 1&1 root access but with hosting company provides me with custom design set up and tech support for the system. I will use it to host the sites that 1&1 managed server preset up cannot meet the requirments. I will check out all the brand names mentioned in this thread. And maybe some more hosting options.

Thanks! Any more advices will be appreciated too.

[bpat1434]

1.) Bandwidth isn't cheap, no matter where you go. The only "cheap" hosters are those that "oversell" their services. Thus no-one will ever really use all the bandwidth, so they can pack more sites in to use it (same idea with the space).

2.) This is managed service(s). These typically come at a high price (usually $75 per hour at most good hosts), unless it's included in your package.



For complete custom solutions (for servers & maintenance), you should really look into www.logicworks.net and www.rackspace.com . They are the two I know that really give you the chance to get down to the nitty-gritty with design elements (like Ram, processor speed, # of processors, type of storage, where it's located in your network, etc.).

On the other hand, there's also a packaged called "The Grid Layer" from LayeredTech which allows you to deploy multiple "systems" in a completely virtual environment. Each "system" is like it's own box. Not sure if SSH is able to be done on those, but I can't see why not.

Layered Tech has some fairly low-priced servers and some really good sales now & again. Although they can't do custom setups, and they don't manage their servers. But if you're going to be customizing them, wouldn't you really want to do the nuts & bolts so if something goes awry, you can fix it immediately rather than wait up to 72 hours for the datacenter?

For a listing of good-quality hosts, I suggest you check out a forum in another site. Here (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?board=4.0) is Simple Machines Forum's forum on hosts & hosting. Most of the members in there offer paid & free items. Though they're geared more towards SMF hosting, they still offer regular packages. So some discounts may not be applicable to you and your situation. Two good people to look at are CoreISP and ChristianH. They both own their own companies, so they can take care of you. I was hosted with Christian for a bit as well. His tech support was good, but it took a few hours sometimes. Although when I put a ticket in, it was usually less than 24 hours before it was updated (whether done, or couldn't be worked on).

Hope that helps. Sorry it's so long.

[blackhorse]

bpat1434, I had some bad experienced with a huge hosting's tech support (they were just xerox of their online documents, nothing more.), so i am seriouse considering switch to one of the brand names you guys mentioned here. I should do it the first place.

My programming are not fancy. Very basic php and mysql. Should be able to connect to bibit and authorizenet (there would be a canadian payment gateway I would try to connect with.)

I am very interested in the Mosso's hosting cloud idea. But it was not the traditional platform I have been working with. It seems perfect that they will not fail you, if one server down, another server will pick it up and run your web sites. Is it too good to be true?

In what situation the hosting cloud idea won't work? It is too new that the industry may not be compatible with it now. There might be quit a few. I like this idea that my site will never be down. But I don't want to be the lab mice.

Such as their ideas that my domain is not hocked with an IP, but some payment gateway service required you give them your IP. For this case, the hosting cloud may not work?

Any one has any advices or experience on mosso and its hosting cloud? or any other hosting comanies' dedicated server hosting, to share with me here? including names mentioned in this thread before or not.

I am calling them one by one now.

By the way, I am looking for any hosting companies that have good tech support. At least not the situation I run into, the tech suppot is in Asia, I am in North America and Nobody knows where the server is. Take hours to get someone hit the reset button.

[stolzyboy]

What price range are you looking for the a dedicated server?

Obviously cheaper the better... but can you compare to what you are paying now?

[bpat1434]

Well, if you get a dedicated IP, then it won't matter what shared space you're on, the IP will point the the correct place ;) And since "cloud servers" are typically shared space (unless you have multiple servers) it's not an issue.

Basically, cloud servers work that there are multiple physical units which are behind a load balancer. The load balancer does exactly as the name implies: balances the load between all the connected units. Now, if one unit fails, there are other units that server up the same stuff, so if a server fails you won't notice it. Same as if the server goes offline for service, you won't notice it. If all of them fail ( highly unlikely ) then your site would be effected; however, it's very unlikely to have multiple servers fail simultaneously. So you won't be a "guinea pig".

Mosso doesn't come cheap though. It's $100 last time I checked, and for that amount, you could get a low-end dedicated server from LayeredTech or ManageMyBox.com and you get complete control over it (LayeredTech has management for your server where ManageMyBox doesn't).

Personally, do what your purse ($$) tells you. If you can afford a dedicated, go that way. If you can afford multiple dedicated with a load balancer, use LogicWorks or RackSpace. If not, a shared server or VPS is the next best thing.

[blackhorse]

What price range are you looking for the a dedicated server?

Obviously cheaper the better... but can you compare to what you are paying now?

Mosso, 100 dollars a month. plus 20 dollars a month if I want an unique IP to be able to use SSL certificate.

[bpat1434]

You don't need a unique IP for SSL.....

[blackhorse]

Mosso's deal is 100 dollars just like other low end dedicated servers. And it works just like other dedicated servers. Except I have no control over the server. But I don't want the server admin responsibility, I just want to be focusing on php application.

Mosso said that they could take care of all the server administration headaches for me. So far, it looks everything is fine.

As for the managed servers from other hosting, to me is the same, except they are on one server, this server fails, all my sites fails. mosso's hosting cloud has redundancy, 1 server fails, others will pick the load up. only when all servers fail, then my sites down. If that is true, will this be the trend of the future hosting?
In this case, mosso is better.

Plus, the experience I just had with low end managed server is bad. How many low end servers company outsource their tech support to the other side of the world? If not all.

I need someone that its tech support is in USA or Canada, and tech support staff is in the same building with the servers. So if the server needs reset, they can just walk to there and hit the button. Instead of file a request (not call) and then wait and see if the server tech in the other side of the world will pick up the request and do it.

So far mosso seems great. Only problems is that I have to live with what they have. But looks like they have the most current php and mysql 5. So it would be good enough for me now.

[blackhorse]

bpat1434, I had a little difficulties to get mosso tech support to understand my problem. If you happened to know the answer, then please help. otherwise, forget about it. It is kind not in the range of this forum.

do you know tech detail about their "The Hosting Cloud actually hosts your website on multiple IP addresses on multiple servers—so you don't have one unique IP address tied to your website."

I don't know how it exactly works? does it mean muitiple domains will be on multiple IPs. For example, www.domain1.com will be on IP addresses 65.65.65.112, 65.65.65.113, and www.domain2.com could be on same IP addresses 65.65.65.112, 65.65.65.113 too.

How the other servers cache their DNS record if their IP changes? If we ping the domain, every time we may get different answers.

My problem is that I am using a payment gateway, which requires us to preset IP address in the our profile, before they accept the orders from us, they will check if it is from the IP address we preset. If the IP addresses changes, then the payment gateway may reject the order.

By the way, does their hosting cloud approach change any behaviors of the php, such as mysql_insert_id() etc.?

[blackhorse]

Excited about Mosso except that I am not sure about mosso's charges of requests. "Starts at 3 million requests. As many as you need for 3¢ per 1,000 requests." How do they calculate the requests, if it is the webalizers's hits, then it will expensive for the requests.

Some site may have a lot of small images in one page depends on the designer's style. All these images in one page will be calculated as 1 request for each image. My two largest sites so far will have 1.2 million requests in total, 40% of mosso's 3 million requests capacity. I have dozens sites already and I will add dozens more sites. That requests charges may cost us too much.

I am checking with gator now. I am excluding out any hosting companies that outsource their tech support.

I don't get gator's approach, they managed the server, preinstalled a lot of stuff on the server, the control panel, the scripts to set up certain applicates the list is very long. But at the same time, I have root access. So who will be responsible for update all these stuff they preinstalled. More than half of these I don't need. I don't want to be responsible for their updates. But at the same time, I have root access, some other things I install may conflict what they install.

With too many stuff installed. It is hard for me or for them to keep track of what they did or what I did.

I like my current local hosting guys' approah, they only install LAMP, qmail, squirrel mail, webalizer, and ftp server. Only the very min. They will update them based on my requests. I managed the server through the shell, create ftp account, set up the mail domain, web sites, set and run the cron etc. But due to they are small they have to charge us big money on every GB traffic. That is killing me. After a year cycle, I am back to the original point.

Outsource tech support hosting I don't want, Mosso's requests charges not fitting my hosting requirements (we are custom programming and design, design is heavy part of our work. And a page with many images links is popular, so the requests we have are heavier than others.)

My eyes are on gator now, but it seems gator put too much stuff on their server and give me root. I don't know how this approach can balance my work and maitain their installs.

So hard to find a suitable hosting. Any other advices?

[bpat1434]

LayeredTech is something you'd want. If you're looking at Gator Hosting for a dedicated, you can get a better server for a lower price with better support. LayeredTech will allow you to have full root access to your server, but you'll have to do updates (which aren't difficult to do).

If not them, then look at someone like Flosoft.biz or Montecarlohosting.net or dedicatedbox.net who will manage your server for you, yet let you have full root access.

If you purchase the right hardware and enough bandwidth, then your server shouldn't go down. If it does, most places have a 24-hour tech support to get it back online. I've used Montecarlohosting.net and tested servers with Flosoft.biz and they've got awesome support (both companies).

If you're really wanting a cloud-like server atmosphere, then you need to shell out the thousands of dollars per month and generate your own setup, or use a pre-made setup from RackSpace or Logicworks. They offer truly redundant backup and servers, and can manage your servers for you. Rackspace has 3 samples for managed servers with load-balancers and backup which is exactly what you'd want. That's exactly what Mosso has (multiple servers behind a load balancer) (especially since Mosso is a subsidiary of RackSpace).

If that doesn't do it for you, you could look into LayeredTech's "The GridLayer" which allows you to set up "virtual" servers in any way you want. Each one is its own entity and can function on its own. It's more meant for web applications deployment, but I can see it being used for other things.

[stolzyboy]

I didn't really look at mosso, rackspace, or any of those posted, but you need to keep in mind whether your dedicated server is managed or unmanaged as well.

I tend to like managed servers so they host will fix problems rather than me taking my time away from other work time to fix the issues. Simply put in a support ticket and let them fix it.

Sure, the managed servers are more money, but if you aren't willing to have a dedicated server admin available, it's well worth the money.

I'm not sure if this was addressed yet in this thread, but thought I'd through it in the mix.

[blackhorse]

Thanks a lot.

My current hosting server set up is perfect. Simple and clean. The hosting company set up the LAMP, qmail etc for me. I managed everything from set up a ftp account, web site, email domain, dns record, cron works through shell. Only set up email accounts through web vpopmail interface. And the tech support is wonderful. Only problem is that the traffic charges is too much.

I don't see any other good hosting companies offer the same simple and clean platform. I guess the clients pool like me is small. If you can set up all these web services through shell, most people will just set up their own boxes.

But in my case, we don't have server guy in our team, I can do LAMP set up and updates in my developing box, but for the production box, I will pay the hosting tech guy do the LAMP set up, update, patch. Because if I did 9 of 10 works right, 1 in 10 wrong. The cost of the downtime and the fix for that 1 time will be more than pay the expert to do the 10 works. Plus the time I spend on server would be much less productive than the time I spend on php application.

Specially, when the server has problems, such as spam attempts to the mail server, mysql server crash, updates conflicts with other preinstall system etc. I depends on the hosting tech to solve. And due to I left all the LAMP updates to them before, so the system is all their set up, they will be able to pinpoint the problems quicker. Rather than have my LAMP updates or patch works in their way.

But I do keep track of what they were doing on the server and what the problems were and when new issue pop up, in most cases I can help the hosting tech support to pinpoint the root of the problems.

I cannot find the same simple and clean hosting deal else where. (But I have to pay every GB big money now.)

Then I am turning to my second option. Looking for someone fully manage the server and I will give up my power and freedom of the root access, as long as the managed box will fit in my 85% web services requests and another 10%, we have a way to get around, and the last 5% if we cannot do it, then fine.

I was trying out Mosso's demo and talk to their tech support guys. They were knowledgeable and helpful even I am not their client yet. But their new price matrix on requests stopped me. Our projects are with heavy graphic design parts, and requests (hits) are huge.

Plus, we host dozens sites, most of them are small, target local market, but with great graphic design works in. Meaning visits are low, CPU and memory usage are low, hits are higher.

On the shared space like Mosso, even we have the redundancy protection. But we may pay for the hits and get less share of the server reources.

Now I am going to check all the companies you recommend. I will look for No Outsource Tech Support, plus

1) simple and clean platform.
2) they manage the LAMP updates and patch and trouble shooting.
3) they will offer extra install, update, patch service if I request. (paid of course).
4) I will only focus on php application, and my own application scripts issues. If I have root access, great. If not, I can live with it.
5) good backup service will be better, plan B is I can still download the sites and databaes myself.

In simple words, I need someone to take care of server and I will just have to worry about php application. And I can sleep better knowing if there is a server problem, someone in our timezones can physically walk to the box to fix it, if it is necessary.

I will keep you guys informed after I contact these companies. Please continue offer yoru advices. Thanks!

[bpat1434]

Okay, traffic is where you're going to have to pay for it. No-one gives away free bandwidth. It's just not possible.

Now, all dedicated servers allow you to customize what is set up on it to begin with. So if you don't want cPanel or Plesk or Webmin or DirectAdmin but want a strict LAMP install, you can ask for that.

In simple words, I need someone to take care of server and I will just have to worry about php application. And I can sleep better knowing if there is a server problem, someone in our timezones can physically walk to the box to fix it, if it is necessary.
This is exactly what managed dedicated servers are. The management team takes care of this for you. And really good companies have monitoring services which automatically email you when your server goes down or isn't reachable and should also alert them to the outtage and they should take care of it.

When you get a dedicated managed server, you don't give up root access, you just give up your maintenance schedule so you don't have to worry about kernel upgrades or security patches for the system. Everything else (except initial setup) is up to you. Keeping PHP, MySQL, and other services up to date is up to you; although, they can do upgrades for you if you ask them to.

[blackhorse]

as for bandwidth, I am paying 360 dollars just for 60 GB now, on top of my box rent. The larger hosting companies offer 500 up to 3000 GB free bandwidth which I will never be able to use them all.

1and1 managed server. I have to live with whatever they give me.
1and1 root server, they will still give me whatever they have.
So they willl not custom install for me.

I am checking other companies mentioned in this thread.

[blackhorse]

LayeredTech, I have to manage everything myself. Not what I am looking for now. Later on, if I have in house great server talents or countable contractor, I will check them out.

[blackhorse]

So far no success for me to look for a managed server(box).

1and1 managed server.

price, bandwidth, hardware are good. but tech support is outsourced. and managed server control panel is hard to use.


Mosso

charge requests over 3 millions turn me away.

Gator

Tech support are good. They will fully manage the server but not willing to do the updates of LAMP (even I am willing to pay.).
MonteCarloHosting.Net

has no sales phone number?

Flosoft.biz

German company. I will look in USA and Canada first.
I will continue to try and hope people can continue give me good information.

[blackhorse]

rackspace

gives me a 383 $ quote. I am looking for 100-250 range.

I google "managed server" there is a long list for people offering managed server. Who else has better "managed server" list to share?

[bpat1434]

Okay, seriously, you can edit your posts. It's okay, we'll still read your post(s).

I'd be careful with HostGator (I believe that's who you're calling "gator"). They do have limits to their bandwidth usage, and if you happen to overuse the bandwidth, they will cut you off, without notice, even for "unlimited" bandwidth.

I sincerely doubt that you're going to find a redundant, managed, automatic backup, load balanced servers that are configured as a cloud, is not going to come cheap. That $383 is probably the best you're going to find. I'd be surprised if you find anything for around your price range. The best you can do is get a top of the line dedicated box with management and use a control panel to setup automatic backups, or set up your own rsync stuff with your own home box.

[piersk]

One more thing about the term "managed server"... find out where they manage up to.

A company I used to work for used a very large hosting company. Their version of "managed" was that they did everything hardware based, but drew the line at software. We had someone in house who dealt with that. I suspect Rackspace is similar (especially their $383 version). So definately check on what their defination of "managed" is before you sign on the dotted line.

[stolzyboy]

with HG, you get 2,500gb with a good managed server... if he's using 60gb now... he'll never run out with 2,500

you have full control over the server, if you wreck something they will fix it

you can use ALL the resources on your server, it's yours after all... the ONLY restriction is bandwidth and of course anything "illegal"

fyi, i use HG, not at the dedicated server level, i'm at the reseller level and have had no problems

the bandwidth/resource limits for "unlimited" are for shared servers and you will be suspended for using any resource limits in the TOS before you run out of bandwidth, these restrictions, aside from bandwidth are not in place for dedicated servers.

if i could afford it, i'd definitely purchase a dedicated from HG

http://www.hostgator.com/dedicated.shtml

One more thing about the term "managed server"... find out where they manage up to.

A company I used to work for used a very large hosting company. Their version of "managed" was that they did everything hardware based, but drew the line at software. We had someone in house who dealt with that. I suspect Rackspace is similar (especially their $383 version). So definately check on what their defination of "managed" is before you sign on the dotted line.

What you are describing (the hardware based managed) is what you get for an UNmanaged server at hostgator. To me, that is NOT a managed server, that is merely a colocated server. If they call that managed, that's crazy... do they expect people to come in a swap out a hard drive if it goes down... that's ludicrous.

Whos would that be so I stay away from them?

Oh, as far as updates to your LAMP system, I'm surprised that you find HG won't update them (especially if paid).

I'll see if I can find more information.

I asked a dedicated server member at HG and he said, "On a managed server, HG will update apache, mysql, php and the linux kernel for free if you ask them to".

I'll post other replies if they are given.

LOL bpat, who cares about quad posted reply.

[piersk]

Whos would that be so I stay away from them?

Much as I'd like to share, there are still a couple of NDA's hanging over my head. Needless to say I doubt you will ever use them unless you end up working for a bank or some other large company like that.

[blackhorse]

Hostgator is the closest one I get.

They said if I am on shared hosting, or if I on a reseller package, they fully managed it.

I think reseller package is not powerful enough for me and I may over use their resources and get me shut down.

I have dozens sites hosted on my server now. I don't have heavy traffic but I do have some heavy php scripts pages, which could create instant high CPU usage for very short time. I never have the performaces issues because I was on my own server.

But if I am on dedicated server, one salesman said yeah, we can updates you if you request a work ticket, it is based on individual case. one salesman said, no we don't do the updates, because the updates may conflict with what you did yourself and it will be too time consuming to fix that. But they can troubleshoot and fix the problems for me. Like I said before, many problems can be solved by updates.

[bpat1434]

If you want a cheaper alternative, you might look into FloSoft.biz's FlexServ Dedicated Server. Essentially each box is it's own server (so you have full root access, and it's completely managed by them, although it may have to run Plesk, not sure though). The difference is, that instead having dedicated HDD space, it's a SAN and mounted during boot up, so if you need more room, they can just give you more in the SAN, and you can have like 5 machines all serve data from the same place in the SAN. So you have redundancy plus dedicated IPs. And it's cost effective. The base-line is like $25 per month. Not too shabby ;)

I know you don't like them being in Germany; however, while I was testing out the system, they do have extremely fast response times to server outtages. Plus, they monitor all of it for you as well.

[blackhorse]

Thanks! I will check the German company out. Price is not the top issue. I am more comfortable with 200 dollars budget. 300 dollars are accpetable too.

Close to 400 dollars, then it might not be worth for me to switch. I am paying 500 - 550 a month now (100 - 150 dollars more than 400). The time and troubles to transfer all the domains I hosted now will be worth more than 2000 bucks I think.

All I need is some professionals manage my server for me. More like hostgator solution. But they don't auto update the dedicated server due to they will give me root access. I would rather not have root access and have them manage my server if I have to chose. But they don't have that option.

[stolzyboy]

I got a reply from dedicated server support. He stated, "Yes we update php, mysql and the linux kernel for free if you are on a managed dedicated server with us."

All you need to do is ask them to do it. Typically, they will upgrade the shared/reseller servers and will notify people on their forum. At that time, you can request for HG to do it for you on your dedicated managed server.

I could rent a dedicated server and resell it to you. :) J/K.

[bpat1434]

I would rather not have root access and have them manage my server if I have to chose. But they don't have that option.
No, you really do want root access. This way you can set up scripts like Trac (http://trac.edgewall.org) or SVN repositories or easily add PEAR packages or edit php.ini or install ruby or RoR or update Perl or whatever. While you could ask them to do this for you, sometimes it's much easier to just do it yourself, especially when you want to create Trac for one client, or give one client a SVN repo and not everyone else, or you just decide you need something done "today" instead of waiting up to 72 hours for people to respond.

Trust me, I'm not a server admin; however, I can now successfully install and add software to a dedicated server quicker than putting in a support ticket.

If you have it, I have a good feeling you're going to miss it once it's gone. It really does do a lot for you in terms of freedom.

~Brett

[stolzyboy]

Yeah, I wouldn't go w/o root access on a dedicated, you never know when you'll want to try something out yourself instead of ticketing support.

And, honestly, the more you "play" around with the server, the more you'll like it and you may try more advanced things and find it fun!

[stolzyboy]

They didn't mention Apache in their first reply. I inquired, they said, yes, they'll update Apache for free as well.

[blackhorse]

Thanks a lot.

At first, I was hoping them to do all the same updates for their shared hosting as for their dedicated server. Specailly the security patches, not just for LAMP. I could accept if they just do LAMP, but at least offer the ticketing for sendmail and other crucial parts.

I specifically asked the salsman, you have the same set up for shared hosting and dedicated server, why not offer update at request to dedicated server, he actually asked his supervisor and came back told me that due to I had root access, it would be time consuming if there are conflcits so they wouldn't do it even for paid requests.

I think the statement Stolzyboy got from support department should be the corrent one.

I would try to get the written statement from hostgator in email before I rent hostgator's server, "Yes we update apache, php, mysql and the linux kernel for free if you are on a managed dedicated server with us." Stolzyboy, maybe you can suggest them to add this to their web pages. A real fully managed server with client has root access. Big sales point for them and an assurance for the clients. (also their web page states that mysql 5 is only available for shared hosting which is not true, I have to explain to my business partner No, their statement is wrong they do offer mysql 5 for dedicated server. It is kind a liittle trouble for me to convice my business partner, specially after I dropped the hosting my business partner signed up with and we have to pay the penality.)

I think I have a winner. hostgator's dedicated server with root access. (Even I may not be comfortable with big updates on product box myself, I can hire contractor to do it if needed. But I prefer hosting tech to do it.)

I have a cheap developing box (my retired PC), I did apache, php, mysql, firebird install and updates myself. But for a production box, I have dozens sites running. I cannot afford the down time or mess up. As a matter of fact, I did install and update on my current production box first. Successfully done it first a few times, and then one time I was missing something. Cost me more to ask hosting tech support to fix for me, plus down time of the box. So from that, I asked them to do all the updates. Plus, that way, they knew the system very well when new problem pop up.

I am paying 600 a month in average including rents, traffic, and update and trouble shoots ticketing etc. (350 dollars or more traffic, 50 dollars or less ticketing etc.) I am looking for same level service with half price, and better hardware for grows. First I will see if my current hosting company can give me a big break in traffic cost so the total cost can at least not be too far from hostgator's deal. (swithing dozens clients cost big time and big money too.) Otherwise, hostgator's dedicated server would be the one.

Stolzyboy, bpat1434, and everyone else, thanks for your help and finally I can settle down with this issue now.

[stolzyboy]

On their dedicated server section, it states:

Managed

We will keep your server up to date on security, and operating system updates. Security updates are usually installed within 8-20 hours of their release from RedHat, CentOS or Microsoft.

and

Root

You will receive full root control of the box.

[blackhorse]

stolzyboy, thanks. hostgator was the closest to my requirements. If I cannot cut a deal with my current hosting, I will go for hostgator. From their above statement, it may only cover the OS. But I will try to get their email confirmation as the reponse they give you regarding mysql, php and apache etc. too. Just to be on the safe side.

[stolzyboy]

send an email to:

tickets at hostgator dot com

That should get you to the support people so you have an email for tracking purposes.

[2levelsabove]

Try CWIHosting.com


Im happy with my service and they are very personable. Price is also very affordable.

120.00 a month and I get managed dedicated server hosting.


Just my two cents.

[blackhorse]

Hostgator is on the candidate list now, so far that is the only one now. I will check out CWIHosting.com.

I am also requesting a quote from peer1.

How about peer1 managed server hosting? they seem to be the one many hosting services just resell their service. Any one with experience with peer1 directly with their managed server service? specillay the tech support quality for general and customized requests? Thanks!

Going to have some quiet time in early summer, I will do the hosting switch then. Hope to be able to transfer dozens sites in one month to reduce the cost of running both old and new server.

[webwired]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned serverpowered.com ... but I have been with them for years...

[blackhorse]

OK, wrap up my hosting question here. I cut a deal with my local hosting company so I will stay with the server they custom set up for me, and count on them for the updates and fixes etc.

But I will recommend hostgator managed server for one of my clients based on the advices and my own contacts with the hosting services mentioned in this thread. The site we built for him is huge and with heavy php codes, may require more resource than regular shared hosting. Plus, dedeicated server should be safer than shared hosting.

In my previous checks.

1) hostgator doesn't offer back up service but suggested me to use 2 Hard Disk.

(if it is still the case, it is ok. because he is hosting dozens sites, he would only host a few his own sites, plus, he can just ftp download the site and database as back up too.)

2) Any recent new experience you guys have with hostgator, bad or good? Any other advices?

I will go order hostgator managed server in a week if my client agrees.

[phoenixkiula]

Go with Liquidweb. Excellent service and fast peered network from anywhere in the world.