Re: [phplib] Re: [phpslash-users] [Fwd: [phplib] [Fwd: [PHP-PEAR] Merging PHPLIB into PEAR]] From: Alex Black (enigma <email protected>)
Date: 01/18/01

> But since PHP4 development releases started coming out, I've noticed the
> PHP developers have been adding all kinds of "stuff" (we would say
> "everything but the kitchen sink" in America) that is questionable as a
> core part of a language.

I disagree to a certain extent, though I see what you're saying...

> And then, just the other day, a co-worker of mine commented on a PHP
> design flaw in the self-service documentation so that others would not
> be tripped up by the same thing (a "gotcha"). Her comment was deleted
> and she received a nasty, insulting e-mail from the PHP development
> staff. She thought she followed the rules. It was not a bug report or
> a feature request.

who knows :)

> Because I like PHP, it really bothered me to see such an attitude
> developing among its creators. Perhaps they are victims of their own
> success -- growing inflated egos because of their success. If so, it
> does not bode well for the future of PHP. I won't bet my business on
> software controlled by people who have attitude problems. I can't -- it
> would be financially foolish.

I don't think so, also Zeev and Rasumus (the core core devs) are quite
reasonable, I haven't see them do anything even a little strange, even in
the face of extreme stupidity :) Manuel Lemos (the developer of metabase,
and creator of phpclasses) has had some _open_ fairly fierce arguments with
Stig regarding PEAR CVS access, and Stig (while I kind of disagreed with
what he said) was reasonable throughout.

> So this whole PEAR thing just worries that much more. Have I made the
> wrong decision to base my companies' web sites on PHP and PHPLIB? Maybe
> I'd better start writing Java servlets, or look at Zope, or again at
> WebGroove. Or maybe spend big money on something like TxDeveloper or
> Bluestone.

no, PHP Rules. :)

> Choosing PHP and PHPLIB is a strategic decision for a business. Maybe
> I'm in the minority here and most of "you all out there" are using
> PHP/PHPLIB for less important things. But maybe not!

absolutely right: if you choose a platform, you have to know it works now,
and will continue to work. I have invested quite a lot of money in building
binarycloud on top of PHP, but I did do it on to of PHP, not java, etc -
because I believe PHP is superior, and will remain so. it is also the only
viable opensource alternative.

> This is why I greatly appreciate your comments, Kristian. It makes me
> feel better, that I have chosen the right technology -- one that is
> well-designed and works well _now_, but will also stay that way for a
> few years to come.

I have seen a lot of posturing going on around PEAR, mostly because of the
way it is being mishandled. (that is, to a certain extent)

Though pear is being advertised as a "CPAN for PHP" it isn't really being
managed that way yet. You have to request CVS access (which makes no sense
because PEAR is supposedly a repository), etc.

_hopefully_ PEAR will normalize given its position (founded by a php core
dev, distributed w/php, etc) - I think it will.

especially as related to binarycloud, I have been trying to make it clear to
people that I would like to maintain compatibility with PEAR, and would like
to donate some of the core binarycloud code to PEAR, so that binarycloud and
PEAR are compatible going forward.

But PEAR and binarycloud really do not overlap very much: PEAR is supposed
to be a libaray repository - binarycloud is a platform for building any kind
of web application. my intent is that binarycloud.com will be an
_application_ repository, and many of those applications will rely on PEAR
_libraries_, which will fit quite nicely into the binarycloud/core/lib/
directory :)

In any case, I actually think the merger with PHPLIB is good, mostly because
I respect PHPLIB and its developers a great deal. I think they will bring a
lot of good code (and respectability) to PEAR - and unlike the current
PEAR::DB, I feel like their database abstraction layer is probably nearly
(if not completely) up to spec.

It remains to be seen how Stig handles this, and if he remains egalitarian
in his approach. It is my hope that he attempts to use the resources within
the PHP community that are pre-existing, to improve upon what is already
there. So far his actions have been a cross between worrying and encouraging
:) (building his own DB class, when there are ~5 out there, apparently
integrating some aspects of system design into PEAR, etc)

Kristian: how familiar are you with binarycloud? and, what do you think (in
more detail) would be the best path for me to take with binarycloud given
this development? I'm gathering as much information as possible :)

best,

-alex

http://www.binarycloud.com
The web application platform for PHP 

--
Alex Black, Head Monkey
enigma <email protected>

The Turing Studio, Inc.
http://www.turingstudio.com

vox+510.666.0074
fax+510.666.0093

Saul Zaentz Film Center
2600 Tenth St Suite 433
Berkeley, CA 94710-2522

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