[phplib] RE: Merging PHPLIB into PEAR (slightly off topic) From: Brian Popp (bpopp <email protected>)
Date: 01/19/01

>>Because I like PHP, it really bothered me to see such an attitude
>>developing among its creators. Perhaps they are victims of their own
>>success -- growing inflated egos because of their success. If so, it
>>does not bode well for the future of PHP. I won't bet my business on
>>software controlled by people who have attitude problems. I can't -- it
>>would be financially foolish.

I share many of your concerns Chris. I was especially distraught when I
heard the authors of PHP were going to start marketing its engine
commercially (Zend). Because of this, I have been a 'little' hesitant to use
many of 4's new core features (sessions). I figure that if they do decide to
tighten their grip on PHP, I can always fall back to 3.

Or maybe I'd just move back to ASP. After all, if you are going to adopt a
proprietary solution, it might as well be Microsoft.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Johnson [mailto:chris <email protected>]
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2001 6:15 PM
To: Kristian Koehntopp; phplib <email protected>;
phpslash-users <email protected>
Subject: RE: [phplib] Re: [phpslash-users] [Fwd: [phplib] [Fwd:
[PHP-PEAR] Merging PHPLIB into PEAR]]

I'm very glad to read such positive statements from you, Kristian. I'm
also happy to know that you and Ulf will make sure PHPLIB becomes part
of PEAR in a good way. I was rather shocked and concerned at first.

This is because, I like and use PHPLIB. I believe PHPLIB is very well
designed and programmed. It has worked almost perfectly in all my uses.

PHP is a nice language, and it's nice that PHP4 is much more efficient
than PHP3.

But since PHP4 development releases started coming out, I've noticed the
PHP developers have been adding all kinds of "stuff" (we would say
"everything but the kitchen sink" in America) that is questionable as a
core part of a language.

And then, just the other day, a co-worker of mine commented on a PHP
design flaw in the self-service documentation so that others would not
be tripped up by the same thing (a "gotcha"). Her comment was deleted
and she received a nasty, insulting e-mail from the PHP development
staff. She thought she followed the rules. It was not a bug report or
a feature request.

Because I like PHP, it really bothered me to see such an attitude
developing among its creators. Perhaps they are victims of their own
success -- growing inflated egos because of their success. If so, it
does not bode well for the future of PHP. I won't bet my business on
software controlled by people who have attitude problems. I can't -- it
would be financially foolish.

So this whole PEAR thing just worries that much more. Have I made the
wrong decision to base my companies' web sites on PHP and PHPLIB? Maybe
I'd better start writing Java servlets, or look at Zope, or again at
WebGroove. Or maybe spend big money on something like TxDeveloper or
Bluestone.

Choosing PHP and PHPLIB is a strategic decision for a business. Maybe
I'm in the minority here and most of "you all out there" are using
PHP/PHPLIB for less important things. But maybe not!

This is why I greatly appreciate your comments, Kristian. It makes me
feel better, that I have chosen the right technology -- one that is
well-designed and works well _now_, but will also stay that way for a
few years to come.

Thank you.

..chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristian Koehntopp [mailto:kris <email protected>]
> I fully understand that there is _much_ code out there using
> PHPLIB. I assure you, I won't let that code break. I won't
> hasten things.
>
> But: There is very little use in maintaining two large class
> repositories with incompatible interfaces (or three, counting in
> binarycloud as well). PEAR is the one repository that is being
> distributed with each install of PHP.
>
> If you want to be part of a standard PHP install, you become
> part of PEAR. If you do not like PEAR, you must become part of
> PEAR and change it to suit your needs. We (Ulf and I) will do
> that, and when we are satisfied, we invite you to do the
> transition.
>
> I recommend that the Binarycloud people have a look at PEAR as
> well, and hit it hard. There is much in it that (IMHO) sucks at
> the moment. If you do not kill what sucks, it will become
> standard part of each PHP install. This cannot be what you or
> anybody wants.
>
> Finally: PHP 4 is the future. PHP 3 has not been developed
> actively for some months now. There is less and less bugfixing
> done on it. Force your providers to upgrade. There will be less
> and less support for PHP 3 by library creators and maintainers.
>
> And again: We try to break as little code as possible and we try
> to do this migration with you, the PHPLIB users, and make it as
> smooth as possible and over an extended timeframe. But we will
> become of the PHP standard install, and that's a good thing.
>
> Kristian

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