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php3-list | 2000051

RE: [PHP3] [PHP4BETA] Stand Up and Be Counted... Or let someone do it for you! WAS: Marketing... From: Anindo Ghosh (anindo <email protected>)
Date: 05/15/00

Hi again!

Remarks interspersed below, but key thoughts:

  I understand that high-profile site admins may well
  be paranoid about exposing their technology choices
  to avoid known exploits. Further, I would go with
  Rasmus' viewpoint about admins having their right
  to privacy, let's respect that.

  Now, what about making it easier and more instant-
  gratification-enabled for the admins themselves to
  make "We are PHP enabled" submissions? Maybe just a
  little note about "helping more developers choose
  the PHP path, so you can recruit easier" - The
  admins would appreciate it as much as the suits
  would, IMHO.

  Further, any statistics gathering exercise can at
  least count on harvesting stats from those sites
  that have not cloaked their server signatures.

  Maybe I am biased, since I spend most of my time
  (AND make most of my money) educating the suits!
  But the consultant viewpoint is: "THE SUIT CAN BE
  YOUR FRIEND... OR YOUR WORST ENEMY!"

More remarks further on...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Lynch [mailto:richard <email protected>]
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 1:09 PM
> To: "Anindo Ghosh"
> Subject: Re: [PHP3] RE: [PHP4BETA] Re: [PHP3] RE: [PHP4BETA] Marketing
> Plan was Re: [PHP4BETA] Helpcraft PHP description
>
>
> In article <GBEMLBGEMHLIDHJNHFMFIEBLCCAA.anindo <email protected>>,
> anindo <email protected> ("Anindo Ghosh") wrote:
>
> > In fact, Netcraft itself also tracks PHP-enabled web
> > hosts, using the Apache header PHP reference. However,
> ---SNIP---
> One must assume that at least *some* of those NT/IIS sites are run by
> professionals, even if their pointy-haired bosses insist on their using
> inferior technology: Such admins presumably also turn off the IIS
> identifying headers, assuming it's possible to do so.

Off topic, but is there a simple way to disable
the IIS identification header?

>
> The Netcraft numbers must be taken with a huge grain of salt both ways:
> Not only are major sites refusing to answer the question, Netcraft simply
> cannot poll Intranets at all. So even if NT/IIS *CANNOT* turn off their

In my experience, the decision makers are much
more willing to experiment with unknown techs on
the intranets, so it is the open-to-the-world
web applications which need backing evidence for
a corporate decision for/against PHP.

> headers, it's not unlikely that way more Intranets in corporate-land are
> running NT/IIS and not getting counted than there are Un*x/Apache sites.
> (It's also possible there's more PHP sites in corporate-land -- I'm just
> saying that there is *no* independently-surveyed data available that I
> know of.) I welcome additions to my research in this area!

Please DO pass on any stats you have, if possible.

>
> While this is an interesting discussion, and I'd love to get more accurate
> numbers for the usage of PHP versus the rest, and I'd really love to have
> more high-profile sites listed on the PHP web-site, I'm not seeing any
> particularly well-planned way to achieve these goals. I'm only suggesting
> that nobody run out and start writing code or designing an application
> yet: Not that it's time to just give up.

Strategy document, strategy document! I'll write
up an post an outline for review and fleshing out.
Who's giving up? :-)

>
> Here are some ideas to perhaps refocus this discussion in a more feasible
> direction:
>
> 1. Find a way to convince major sites (of all kinds) to report directly to
> Netcraft without exposing their OS/Web/Scripting Language to the world:
> Presumably they are not opposed to being counted, but wish to not be
> targeted based on hacker knowledge of OS/Web/etc. Duh. Convince Netcraft
> to accept such reports.

Or do a PHP-centric stat-site with appropriate privacy
policies in place. It's not just "PHP versus XYZ" we
need, it's often just "Is PHP ACTUALLY being used in
OUR kind of situation?" And after all, most corporates
believe their requirements are WAY beyond anyone else's.

>
> 2. Redesign the PHP page that lists PHP usage sites to be more dynamic.

YESyesYESyesYES!

> This is probably something that a small group on this list could form to
> do, and save Rasmus the trouble (at least it seems like a fairly modular,
> simple [hard to screw up]) task on the surface.
>
> 3. (pre-requisite: 2.) Drive high-profile traffic to the PHP sites page.

How? Anyone have any ideas on making it VERY ATTRACTIVE
for people to stand up and be counted as PHPers? Besides
the sneaky fringe benefit of being offered a job by the
competition, of course.

> It is not completely unreasonable to suggest that *MAYBE* (unofficial
> statement) Zend would be more likely to consider somebody for alpha/beta
> usage of their products if Zend actually knew they existed :-) IE, if a
> high-profile site were to appear on that list, one would think that
> perhaps we'd notice and when the time came for looking for those "insider"
> beta release testers, that would be a good place to start. This is *NOT*
> one of those annoying side-of-the-mouth I-know-a-secret statements: I'm
> just hypothesizing that when the time comes to look for beta testers, that
> *has* to be one of the places we'll look.
>

Sounds like a plan (Real Soon Now). Thinking-caps enabled.

Also, all you consultants recommending PHP to the corporate
brass, would you care to stand up and be counted? On-list
or direct Email, just so I know I am not alone. :-)

Warm Regards 

---
Anindo Ghosh
anindo <email protected>

---
 Nurture geekdom where you find it -- adopt a babygeek today!
 ---> Kirrily "Skud" Robert, "geek chicks: second thoughts"
---

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